Mental Illness Revisited...

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Ok that which is flesh is flesh but that which is spirit is spirit....dont confuse the two....there are all kinds of imbalances that can happen with hormones and chemicals in the body that have a MAJOR effect on behavior feelings and moods.

Correct. Every emotion we have is based on chemicals. That's why we can't CHOOSE to be happy or sad or angry. There is usually a trigger mechanism.

In order to sleep, certain chemicals have to be present. Often times, people who have chronic sleeplessness have a chemical imbalance that prevents sleep or good enough sleep.

The chemicals in our bodies are directly responsible for how it behaves, from monitoring our hearts, movements of our extremities, digestion, and even pain.

When we are sick, doctors perform routine bloodwork because there are chemicals that, if too low or too high, indicate what is wrong or they are causing what is wrong. Ignore those numbers and you could die or wish you had.

Myths. People don't need to have a three digit IQ to understand what I just said above. If someone doesn't like that we have chemicals in our bodies, talk to God about it. He should have made us more perfect.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The body is a biological machine. Sin has effected this machine and as a result it is fallen and doesn't work properly. It is still subject to sinful desires, aging, disease, atrophy, and death. Although one receives the Holy Ghost into their "spirit", it doesn't "change" the body. The body can still have various genetic and hormonal issues. Some of these affect the chemical levels in the brain causing depression, suicidal thoughts, sadness, etc.

We tend to think that it is purely emotional and immaterial. But fluctuating or insufficient chemical levels in the brain can bring on these symptoms. It's an infirmity of the flesh.

Excellent post.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by allstate1

I think EB should have his license revoked and banned from preaching, teaching, evangelising or whatever it is he calls himself doing!

Originally Posted by allstate1

Well with a bipolar wife and a bipolar 13 year old son I think I have more insight on this topic than others!

Originally Posted by allstate1

Not to mention 41 years in the UPC and 6 immediate family members who are currently pastors maybe more than you realize Houston. You do know God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason?

God also gave us two eyes to read what has already been posted in a forum before we make a comment?

You think?

If you had taken the time to read what was already posted you would of seen that I am married to someone who had dealt with the same issues you are currently dealing with. I hope you try in the future to respond to posts instead of reacting to them.

May the Lord Jesus bless you and your family in a mighty way.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You are talking about bipolar, that is what my wife suffered with her entire life. She had a really bad situation which had her go to a UPCI church which was pastored by Brother Wayne Rooks, and Brother Bobby Stewart. When she received the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in other tongues she was healed and never had another episode. Never, we have two beautiful girls and my wife has been through a lot since she as (an evangelist's wife) has been in the church, but NEVER has had an episode with the issues of bipolar. I will be praying for your friend, keep praying with him, and telling him he can do it through the power of Jesus Christ.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sasha

I didn't watch that video but I didn't have to. I'm not sure why you think chemical imbalances are myths, but if that's the case, then diabetes and Parkinson's are made up diseases, just to name a couple that are major illnesses that happen to take people's lives.

There are over 1000 chemicals and hormones in our bodies. I didn't put them there, God did. If any of them are off, it can cause major problems.

For instance, if you don't have enough potassium or you have way too much, your heart will stop. Ammonia in the brain can cause you to act strange and have memory problems. Too much creatinine means your kidneys are failing. If your glucose is low, you risk going into a coma.

As for tests for chemicals, haven't you ever had bloodwork? There are 'norms' listed for each test. I can't believe you didn't know that.

I understand all the tests you mentioned in your above posts yet in psychiatry there are no tests for a chemical imbalance of the brain, and none are given. Yet, what psychiatry does do is observe the patient, and through observation is the diagnosis made.

Parkinson's and diabetes are not diagnosed through mere questions and answers of how "do you feel about yourself" but real objective science. A patient may have blood or urine samples taken, but they're not taken to see if you have a chemical imbalance of the brain, but if other medical problems are the cause of the patients issues. Psychological evaluation, and mood charting, then going to Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is what will make the final determination for how the patient is dealt with, not objective medicine but with subjective observation. if a person is all the issues you stated above too much or too little potassium, ammonia in the blood, high levels of creatinine, or low glucose, you aren't prescribed Antipsychotic drugs. There's a big difference in having hypokalemia and someone having a major depressive disorder.

[obriencp]

i'd like to thank Aquila and others for sharing very personal details. Aquila, Sasha, and others obviously get it and are able to show compassion even in disagreement. However, it saddens me to see how 'evang' Benincasa and a few others are so very cold and hurtful in their responses.

I don't doubt God can heal.
I don't doubt that He healed E.Bs wife
There is no doubt to anyone who has read this thread that God Can heal. But it seems we're trying to deal with this question... what if He doesn't? We cannot fully understand God's will, His Mind, or His timing. If God doesn't heal it isn't always because of a lack of faith.

Yes, i'm new and have few posts so I may not even "be relevant" to this site, but shame on those have blasted others without even really understanding what is being said.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sasha

talk to God about it. He should have made us more perfect.

So, if you talk to God (I would assume by praying) can He correct the imbalance?

If you drink a Red Bull and chase it down with a Mountain Dew you will have a chemical imbalance, if you smoke a cigarette you will have a chemical imbalance, if a child drinks a Red Bull chased down with a Mountain Dew they will have to be peeled off the ceiling, but not treated with Antipsychotic drugs.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by obriencp

i'd like to thank Aquila and others for sharing very personal details. Aquila, Sasha, and others obviously get it and are able to show compassion even in disagreement. However, it saddens me to see how 'evang' Benincasa and a few others are so very cold and hurtful in their responses.

I don't doubt God can heal.
I don't doubt that He healed E.Bs wife
There is no doubt to anyone who has read this thread that God Can heal. But it seems we're trying to deal with this question... what if He doesn't? We cannot fully understand God's will, His Mind, or His timing. If God doesn't heal it isn't always because of a lack of faith.

Yes, i'm new and have few posts so I may not even "be relevant" to this site, but shame on those have blasted others without even really understanding what is being said.

Does that also go for you too?

You see, blasting can be done in many ways, one can be passive about their blasting like singling out someone as the bad machine, stick in the wheel, or as you posted "hurtful in their response." I'm not trying to hurt anyone, yet I'm not trying to water down what I'm trying to post either. My focus is on that God can and will heal, yet why give up, and why give up on those who want to be free from the torment of Antipsychotic drugs?

You are relevant and thank you for your thoughts.

[obriencp]

Very pleasant, thank you.

Many of us want to focus on God healing us, but in light of those trying to answer the "what if He doesn't" question, you, as well as others, were very hurtful. I read/understood a very negative tone coming out in many of the responses toward those who acknowledge that mental illnesses are an illness of the brain (chemical or otherwise).

It seems that you were implying that if God didn't heal someone that somehow man was at fault. Is this true? If that is not what you meant, then surely you need to learn how to better explain yourself.

There may be instances when God can't move because of unbelief, but there are certainly instances when God chooses not to heal and it is NOT because of our unbelief. Different people will react differently if God chooses not to heal. Some will try to place blame, some will pray harder, and some may even turn to medication. We shouldn't judge peoples faith as weak simply because they opt for alternative means to cope; IE medication, counselling, meditation, etc.

Just because people opt for these alternative means does not mean they have lost faith or given up on God. It simply means they have accepted the fact that they cannot understand God's will and are coping in the meanwhile.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by obriencp

Very pleasant, thank you.

Many of us want to focus on God healing us, but in light of those trying to answer the "what if He doesn't" question, you, as well as others, were very hurtful. I read/understood a very negative tone coming out in many of the responses toward those who acknowledge that mental illnesses are an illness of the brain (chemical or otherwise).

It seems that you were implying that if God didn't heal someone that somehow man was at fault. Is this true? If that is not what you meant, then surely you need to learn how to better explain yourself.

There may be instances when God can't move because of unbelief, but there are certainly instances when God chooses not to heal and it is NOT because of our unbelief. Different people will react differently if God chooses not to heal. Some will try to place blame, some will pray harder, and some may even turn to medication. We shouldn't judge peoples faith as weak simply because they opt for alternative means to cope; IE medication, counselling, meditation, etc.

Just because people opt for these alternative means does not mean they have lost faith or given up on God. It simply means they have accepted the fact that they cannot understand God's will and are coping in the meanwhile.

With all due respect, it is either I posted the way you claim, or I didn't, "seeming" to be this, or that, doesn't mean anything to the poster. That is your perception, and observations of the postings which causes you to say it "seems" that a poster was "implying?" That all in itself doesn't mean the poster wasn't clear, or needed to be any clearer than he or she already was, but it usually ends up being that the perception of the other poster is viewed through, either A the need to be right, or B, an offence due to the contents of the post.

Yet it could even not be either A or B but that the other poster is just a jerk.

Not saying you are mind you, yet to be clear in what I am trying to post, I must say that I do believe God can heal, didn't know I posted that people just need to pray harder if they are not healed (if you can find the post please direct me to it) also I'd rather not view God through some philosophical lens where He is a last resort, or that He is as useful as digging a basement for a house with a Dixie cup spoon. Not saying you posted that way, but just trying to make myself clear on what I believe concerning God's healing ability.

God can heal.

Yet, I'm just leaning towards not focusing on Him not healing, I usually get better results that way, also it tends to encourage the people you are praying for if you happen to build their faith as you are dealing with their situation. I don't walk into a hospital room telling individuals to make themselves comfortable with their loved one dying, that's usually not why they called me in the first place. I tell them let's pray for the optimum outcome.

The whole issue of mental illness is one that most times doesn't have to be prayed over. Now is that what you are calling a harsh statement? That's my opinion, and therefore I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to your's. The mental illness situation in this country is unprecedented, and Eli Lilly and Company are benefiting, more than the patients.

Now I have had cases of individuals who have gone off their psychotropics with the help of their doctor, and have NEVER had another episode. Some of these are people who aren't even Christians, but they went off their psychotropics, with no problems. My wife had an experience with Jesus Christ at a UPCI altar, and was filled with the Holy Ghost with not one recurrence of her issues.

So, with all that, what I am trying to say is that you can be freed from the dependency of strong antipsychotic drugs. That's what I'm trying to say.

Thank you for your comments.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

With all due respect, it is either I posted the way you claim, or I didn't, "seeming" to be this, or that, doesn't mean anything to the poster. That is your perception, and observations of the postings which causes you to say it "seems" that a poster was "implying?" That all in itself doesn't mean the poster wasn't clear, or needed to be any clearer than he or she already was, but it usually ends up being that the perception of the other poster is viewed through, either A the need to be right, or B, an offence due to the contents of the post.

Yet it could even not be either A or B but that the other poster is just a jerk.

Not saying you are mind you, yet to be clear in what I am trying to post, I must say that I do believe God can heal, didn't know I posted that people just need to pray harder if they are not healed (if you can find the post please direct me to it) also I'd rather not view God through some philosophical lens where He is a last resort, or that He is as useful as digging a basement for a house with a Dixie cup spoon. Not saying you posted that way, but just trying to make myself clear on what I believe concerning God's healing ability.

God can heal.

Yet, I'm just leaning towards not focusing on Him not healing, I usually get better results that way, also it tends to encourage the people you are praying for if you happen to build their faith as you are dealing with their situation. I don't walk into a hospital room telling individuals to make themselves comfortable with their loved one dying, that's usually not why they called me in the first place. I tell them let's pray for the optimum outcome.

The whole issue of mental illness is one that most times doesn't have to be prayed over. Now is that what you are calling a harsh statement? That's my opinion, and therefore I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to your's. The mental illness situation in this country is unprecedented, and Eli Lilly and Company are benefiting, more than the patients.

Now I have had cases of individuals who have gone off their psychotropics with the help of their doctor, and have NEVER had another episode. Some of these are people who aren't even Christians, but they went off their psychotropics, with no problems. My wife had an experience with Jesus Christ at a UPCI altar, and was filled with the Holy Ghost with not one recurrence of her issues.

So, with all that, what I am trying to say is that you can be freed from the dependency of strong antipsychotic drugs. That's what I'm trying to say.

Thank you for your comments.

I find most believe 'God can heal'. The question of faith however is to determine that 'God WILL heal'.

And that often seems to require 'the gift of faith' (1 Cor 12) to believe for a healing in a specific instance.

jmo.