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  #51  
Old 12-15-2013, 04:24 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
This is the same Greek word used in John 1:18....



Greek word..."horaō"


to see with the eyes

to see with the mind, to perceive, know

to see, i.e. become acquainted with by experience, to experience


We need only look at the rest of John 1:18 to see in which context John meant when using the word "seen' in relation to God...




"Declared"....

Greek word...."exēgeomai"


etaph., to draw out in narrative, unfold a teaching

to recount, rehearse

to unfold, declare

the things relating to God

used in Greek writing of the interpretation of things sacred and divine, oracles, dreams, etc.


The use of the word "declared" by John in relation to Christ having "declared" the God who had never been "seen" demonstrates that he was not referring to a physical viewing with natural eyes but of a perception and correct understanding of. That is the only context that makes sense here. Jesus showed us what God was really like. In Christ we "saw" God like we had never "seen" him before.
I disagree. It's "seen" with the eyes. God was "percieved" by men in the OT. In fact even Jesus confirms this

oh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Horao can just as easily mean "to see with the eyes".

However the real "key" is to understand John in the context of John's Jewishness. The Logos is the Greek representative of the Aramaic Memra.

Jesus being made flesh and "tabernacled among us" represents the Hebrew concept of the Shekinah (dwelling of God with men).

In Jewish thought on the OT, God Himself is invisible (Col 1:15. 1Tim 1:17) and is only revealed through His Memra and His Glory. They distinguished between God without any visible form in heaven and God revealed audibly and visually hear on earth in Theophanies/Anthropomorphisms

I do agree Horao can sometimes refer to perception but I don't believe that is what John is saying. The Son was made flesh/Visible is being contrasted with God Invisible
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
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  #52  
Old 12-15-2013, 04:31 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

I hope I can help on several key issues. It will be time well spent. This is a short video but addresses Who Is The Father Of Jesus in a clear cut manner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9C8uRfVF3A
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  #53  
Old 12-15-2013, 04:32 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I disagree. It's "seen" with the eyes. God was "percieved" by men in the OT. In fact even Jesus confirms this

oh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Horao can just as easily mean "to see with the eyes".

However the real "key" is to understand John in the context of John's Jewishness. The Logos is the Greek representative of the Aramaic Memra.

Jesus being made flesh and "tabernacled among us" represents the Hebrew concept of the Shekinah (dwelling of God with men).

In Jewish thought on the OT, God Himself is invisible (Col 1:15. 1Tim 1:17) and is only revealed through His Memra and His Glory. They distinguished between God without any visible form in heaven and God revealed audibly and visually hear on earth in Theophanies/Anthropomorphisms

I do agree Horao can sometimes refer to perception but I don't believe that is what John is saying. The Son was made flesh/Visible is being contrasted with God Invisible
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  #54  
Old 12-15-2013, 04:43 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

This video addresses the concept that no one has seen God at any time. Well what did they see? This requires a little more than an hour of your time. This revelation is what helped me burn my bridges with Trinitarianism.

Understanding The Logos



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQLTYoewJyY

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 12-15-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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  #55  
Old 12-15-2013, 04:44 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
I still love you, even if we disagree.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #56  
Old 12-15-2013, 06:05 PM
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tv1a tv1a is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

Greg Boyd does a much better job.
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  #57  
Old 12-15-2013, 06:11 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

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Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Greg Boyd does a much better job.
When I read Gregs book it was pretty funny. The first chapter NAILED IT for the Jesus Only doctrine. So much so he had to warn his readers BEWARE OF CROSS REFERENCING!

The very thing that everyone does in topical study! Why? Because it shreds Trinitarianism before the mighty sledgehammer doctrine of one God in Christ!
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  #58  
Old 12-15-2013, 07:13 PM
MarieA27 MarieA27 is offline
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Re: The Error of Jesus Only Doctrine

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
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