Sinful housework

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by shazeep

nice. although it might be two 'steps,' it could also be 3, or 7 for a category, or even 10 or unlimited? As, who can ever approach God?bingo why isn't this preached? it is how Christ introduced an initiate. Count the cost and Every inch of skin will be stripped from you. And yes, the only real joy you will ever find. how much more powerful this would be rather than cornering someone and recruiting them in fear.
i've come to see the mechanism of it more like a self-destruction, God not even 'doing' it really, but the inability of sin to even exist around God. i dislike 'love demands hatred' because that is not what Christ demonstrates; and i've a pretty good argument that attributing our emotions, hate, or even love as we understand it, to God, is anthropomorphising (even when done in Scripture) that i'm sure yu'd agree with.

Don't think in terms of mechanism. Think in terms of person. God is a person, not a mechanism. God is an all powerful, intelligent being who is love itself.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

I agree that God is love in the sense that love is a divine attribute. In the same sense though God is just and God is merciful and God is gracious. When we begin to speak of His nature though He is Holy. You have still not answered why God calls Him self the Holy one of Israel, or why the number one adjective pertainning to God in the Bible is Holy.

1. If God is first foremost and above all love why does He never call Himself the Loveing one of Israel or else why does the prophets never call Him this?

2. Why is the it that the Angel when describing to Mary the baby to born describes as Holy not loving?

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

3. Why is it that God is called the Holy Ghost and not the Loving Ghost?

Until you get the ontological understanding that God is love... then love will just seem like an attribute of God to you. God "is" love. Until the impact of that resonates within the soul... a person will just see God much like man. To man, love is an attribute. We are not love, but we can be loving. However, being love with relation to the very essence of one's substance... that's an entirely different story. This ultimately explains and defines holiness, justice, etc. If it emanates from God's being love... it will always be in proper context.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

He still refers to Himself as Holy in the NT He also retains the name Holy Ghost not loving Ghost. Also the NT does not cancel the OT rather it fulfills the OT.

God is holy. But God isn't holiness itself. Holiness is an attribute. Jealousy is an attribute. With regards to God, love is the essence of His very substance. God "is"... love.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

God is holy. But God isn't holiness itself. Holiness is an attribute. Jealousy is an attribute. With regards to God, love is the essence of His very substance. God "is"... love.

Why can God not be holiness?

Where does the Bible in any more specific language than:

1Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

say that God's nature is love?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

Why can God not be holiness?

Because Scipture states that God is holy... yet it doesn't make any ontological statement saying that God "is" holiness itself.

For example, a human being can be loving... but we are not love itself.

Now, Scripture testifies that God "is" love. God is not only loving, but God is love itself. Now, this love is "holy". In that, I agree.

Where does the Bible in any more specific language than:

1Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

say that God's nature is love?

Saying that God is holy speaks of an attribute. But it doesn't say that God "is" holiness itself.

Besides, the state of being holy only speaks of separateness or distinction from all else. He is indeed otherworldly. He is "holy". But what is the nature of that holiness? The nature of that holiness would flow from the essence of His very substance... which is love itself.

[Aquila]

If God were not love itself... we could say that God could act out of a motivation other than love... just as human beings often do. However, if we say that God "is" love... then God must be said to only act out of love for His creation. That love is not some wishy washy kind of love either. While God's love can be tender, merciful, and patient, and kind... it can also be fearsome, visiting vengence upon that which endangers His creation... i.e... sin and the wicked who propagate it.

Even Hell serves to satisfy His divine love for creation. Hell confines sin and that which would destroy creation. It also rewards evil for the damage it has done. Friend... God acts out of love... in all things... because He "is" love... He can do none else.

[Aquila]

Take for example the man who touched the Ark of the Covenant to prevent it from falling off a cart. Did God lash out and kill that man in some temperous rage or trantrum??? Nope. Men do that... God doesn't. God's love demanded that the man perish... because if God had spared Him, God's Word wouldn't be held in the highest regard... and souls would be lost forever.

All that God does is in harmony with the essence of His being. Love. No matter how extreme it may seem. The motivation is love.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Because Scipture states that God is holy... yet it doesn't make any ontological statement saying that God "is" holiness itself.

For example, a human being can be loving... but we are not love itself.

Now, Scripture testifies that God "is" love. God is not only loving, but God is love itself. Now, this love is "holy". In that, I agree.



Saying that God is holy speaks of an attribute. But it doesn't say that God "is" holiness itself.

Besides, the state of being holy only speaks of separateness or distinction from all else. He is indeed otherworldly. He is "holy". But what is the nature of that holiness? The nature of that holiness would flow from the essence of His very substance... which is love itself.

Please show the chapter and verse where the Bible says God is love itself?

Why is it that the multitude of places where God refers to Himself as as Holy and where Angels refer to God as Holy and where prophets refer to God as Holy and where the apostles refer to God as Holy and where demons refer to God as Holy that in those places only an attribute is spoken of but in the one place that God is said to be love this must be His nature?

Is the wording different?

Does one place specificly say that love is His nature?

[shazeep]

Aquila, your arg seems to be a descent into the definition of 'is,' wadr. 'Is' and '=' are one and the same, no?

1 John 4:16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. ...
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. ... God is love,
and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them. ...
//bible.cc/1_john/4-16.htm - 19k
1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is ...
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. ... But anyone
who does not love does not know God, for God is love. ...
//bible.cc/1_john/4-8.htm - 17k

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

Please show the chapter and verse where the Bible says God is love itself?

I would present the following texts:

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Why is it that the multitude of places where God refers to Himself as as Holy and where Angels refer to God as Holy and where prophets refer to God as Holy and where the apostles refer to God as Holy and where demons refer to God as Holy that in those places only an attribute is spoken of but in the one place that God is said to be love this must be His nature?

Is the wording different?

What makes something "holy"? Holiness itself. Therefore, while God is holy... we don't read that God is "holiness" itself. However, the Bible tells us that God is love. That's a very absolute statement. Now, if God IS love itself... that's the very essence of His nature. Love.

Does one place specificly say that love is His nature?

God is love. The God who is love is also holy. But He isn't holiness itself. In fact, anything set aside and separated for God's purposes is also holy.

Are you saying that God is not love? If you don't want to believe that God is love... that's entirely up to you.