End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sister Alvear]

oh..Forgot to say that is Portuguese...the Bible we all use here in Brazil.

[Sister Alvear]

and I do agree with you some Bibles say the man...but it is logical that the Bible teaches we are all i subjection to one another also...no Godly woman would even think about trying to be over her husband...I work along beside my husband...I would never think of being over him...that is foolish to think a Godly woman would want to rule her husband.

[Sister Alvear]

1 Tim. 2:11. It does not say women but a woman, and better still, a wife. The word in Greek is gune (1135), which indicates either a woman generically speaking or a wife, depending on the context. In this instance, since it stands in apposition to the word andros (the genitive singular of aner here meaning only “husband” and not “man” generically, 435), it must be translated as “a wife.”

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

1 Tim. 2:11. It does not say women but a woman, and better still, a wife. The word in Greek is gune (1135), which indicates either a woman generically speaking or a wife, depending on the context. In this instance, since it stands in apposition to the word andros (the genitive singular of aner here meaning only “husband” and not “man” generically, 435), it must be translated as “a wife.”

Hmmm, apparently every-single one of these professional linguists missed something you see (from yet another copy-paste job). None of them (independent of one another) have adopted the translation you say they should have (for the syntactical reasons I've posted repeatedly in this thread):


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.


Guess you see something they alllllllllllllllllllll overlooked?


A genitive singular noun does not demand "possession" (if that's what you're thinking?) & when it does the noun (in this case "man") is generally translated into English with a prepositional phrase starting with the word "of" - none of which is the "case" in I Timothy 2.12. For more on the function of a genitive case Greek noun see here: http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/nouns1.htm.

[Sister Alvear]

1 Timothy 2:12, in which Paul states "I do not suffer (permit) a woman to teach, or usurp authority over a man." In interpreting this verse, it is important to remember that the Greek words for "man" and "husband," as well as the words for "woman" and "wife," are the same. In the very next verse, Paul refers back to Adam being formed first, then Eve.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

1 Timothy 2:12, in which Paul states "I do not suffer (permit) a woman to teach, or usurp authority over a man." In interpreting this verse, it is important to remember that the Greek words for "man" and "husband," as well as the words for "woman" and "wife," are the same. In the very next verse, Paul refers back to Adam being formed first, then Eve.

Exactly, & it is this very order of creation & headship that Paul uses as his basis of appeal in forbidding women to preach/teach men...Precisely the point I've been miking all along.

.


Also, why have none of these linguists adopted the translation you say they "should have"?


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.


Here's why:


"Gune and aner are words which mean 'adult female' and 'adult male' in their unmarked meanings. Only if there are sufficient contextual clues that husband and wife are in view do the words mean 'wife' and 'husband.' The definite article or 'idios' (one's own) or a possessive pronoun is required to show that husband and wife are in the text. None of these things occur in 1 Tim 2. The article occurs in 1 Cor 11, but only because it is syntactically required by the construction. Both passages are clearly talking about the Christian community in worship, which would of course involve single adults and married couples. Take a look at other passages that are clearly speaking about husband and wife--e.g., Eph 5, 1 Peter 3--and you'll see that they use these signals to note that husband and wife are in view."


BTW - This is the leading Greek authority on the entire planet. Dr. Daniel Wallace. Let me guess, we'll just ignore this again & keep on with the copy-paste jobs - right?

[Sister Alvear]

From all indications, this passage is, by context, referring to the marriage relationship, not the church. Paul is not saying that men cannot learn from women. Rather, he is simply stating that women are not to be manipulative or domineering over their husbands. There is a big difference.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

From all indications, this passage is, by context, referring to the marriage relationship, not the church. Paul is not saying that men cannot learn from women. Rather, he is simply stating that women are not to be manipulative or domineering over their husbands. There is a big difference.

From all indications, this passage is, by context, grammar, exegesis, syntax & the most normal reading clearly forbidding women from "teaching/preaching" to men in the church .

[Sister Alvear]

This is not dealing with "church" authority but authority in the "home." The context proves it. Paul uses Adam and Eve as the example of authority. What relationship did Adam and Eve have? They were husband and wife, not pastor and sheep. Since there is no Greek word for husband and wife, the word "man" and "woman" is also translated "husband" and "wife", and based on the context these words should have been translated as such.

I Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived in the transgression. Now we read what the above scripture says, but what does it really say? When we look up the word woman in the Strong's Concordance we find that this use of "women" is Strong's number 1135, The definition of this use of woman is "wife.”

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

This is not dealing with "church" authority but authority in the "home." The context proves it. Paul uses Adam and Eve as the example of authority. What relationship did Adam and Eve have? They were husband and wife, not pastor and sheep. Since there is no Greek word for husband and wife, the word "man" and "woman" is also translated "husband" and "wife", and based on the context these words should have been translated as such.

I Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection, But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived in the transgression. Now we read what the above scripture says, but what does it really say? When we look up the word woman in the Strong's Concordance we find that this use of "women" is Strong's number 1135, The definition of this use of woman is "wife.”

Respectfully, this is completely wrong. The Greek noun in I Timothy 2.12 is γυναικὶ. Here is the actual definition: http://biblehub.com/greek/1135.htm. As you will clearly see, the normal definition of this noun is simply "woman" & most often translated as such (approximately 130 times).


As leading translator Dr. Wallace said, "only if there are sufficient markers identifying a wife can this noun mean 'wife.' None of this is going on in I Timothy 2."