End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11 - Page 36

rdp · #**351** 01-22-2014, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Rom 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a (servant = S#1249 an attendant, a waiter...a... TEACHER AND PASTOR techn. a deacon or DEACONESS) of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a (SUCCOURER = S#4368) of many, and of myself also."Do you notice that word "succourer" there? Let's look a little closer at it's definition...Succourer- Strong's reference number: 4368 Greek: prostatis Derivation: Derived from 4291 (see below) Definition: a patroness, i.e. assistantStrong's reference number: 4291 Greek: proistemi Derivation: Derived from 4253 2476 (see below) Definition: to stand before, i.e. (in rank) **TO PRESIDE**, or (by impl.) to practiseStrong's reference number: 4253 Greek: pro Derivation: A primary word. Definition: "fore", i.e. in front of, prior (fig. SUPERIOR) TO

Original Word: διάκονος, οῦ, ὁ, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: diakonos
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ak'-on-os)
Short Definition: a waiter, servant, administrator
Definition: a waiter, servant; then of any one who performs any service, an administrator.

Grammarian, Dr. A. T. Robertson, "1249 (diákonos) properly means 'to kick up dust,' as one running an errand."

Renown linguist Dr. Joseph Thayer, "a deaconess (ministra, Pliny, epistles 10, 97), a woman to whom the care of either poor or sick women was entrusted, Romans 16:1 (cf. Dictionaries as above, under the word ; Lightfoot as above, p. 191; B. D. under the word ).

Sorry Sister - women "preaching-teaching" men from the Scriptures is simply not there

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rdp · #**352** 01-22-2014, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I have many e mails too....lol...

Oh I'm sure, but they will never hold up to the syntax, translation, & careful exegesis of the actual inspired Greek texts themselves

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Yes, I too still have much lexical data I can share

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rdp · #**353** 01-22-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Can any man with a negative attitude toward women in the ministry ever hope to obey Paul's admonishment to "assist HER in **WHATSOEVER** SHE HATH NEED OF YOU"?

She was a assistant, just as the Greek term states - not a "minister" in the sense of a "women preacher" to men from the Scriptures

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Still waiting on that Bible passage where a women instructs a congregation of men out of the Scriptures (either OT or NT):__________?

rdp · #**354** 01-22-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The odd thing about diakonos being used to describe Phoebe is that it is the masculine form used to describe a woman. Most versions translate it as “servant,” whereas, when it used of men it is translated as “deacon.” Although one of the meanings of diakonos can be serving another’s physical needs for food and shelter, that it is paired with “of the church of Cenchreae” makes it unlikely this is the meaning Paul is using here.

Pure conjecture - not Bible. Of course Phoebe was a "helper of many" (16.2 - kinda left that part of her identification out didn't you

?), which clearly indicates she attended to the needs of folks in the church.

I already provided the actual lexical data of this Greek term - but I doooo like how you concede above that "women-preachers" are operating in "the masculine form"

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Trust me, I've had dealings with "women-preachers" who act completely masculine when they're up spittin' & sputterin' in the pulpit (it's humiliating) & are the spiritual leaders of the home.

Pitiful.

rdp · #**355** 01-22-2014, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

This is the only occurrence of the word in the New Testament (Grenz, 89). It is also another word that is translated in such a way that its main meaning is not obvious in the translation. The normal translation is “helper” or someone who has helped. The basic and most obvious translation of the word is patron or benefactor, and women in this role, are well attested in the Roman world (Dunn, 888). Phoebe was likely another wealthy woman who served the church out of her means as the women in Luke 8 served Jesus out of theirs.Spencer has also suggested that porstatis could be derived from the root verb proistemi, which means to “to stand, place before or over,” or “to help by ruling” The times the verb appears in the New Testament it has the meaning of ruling or governing (Romans 12:8; 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13), and in the Pastoral Epistles both bishops and deacons were to govern their households well. In other Greek sources, such as Josephus, the masculine form of prostatis is used to describe rulers and leaders like Moses, Herod, and Agrippa (Spencer 116). This word could mean that Phoebe was a ruler or another overseer in the church.

No it couldn't - Or, are you now telling us that Phoebe was a "ruler" over Paul....For he goes on to say in the same verse, "including myself also"

??

See the translations below:

New Living Translation
Welcome her in the Lord as one who is worthy of honor among God's people. Help her in whatever she needs, for she has been helpful to many, and especially to me.

New American Standard Bible
that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, and of myself as well.

King James Bible
That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

International Standard Version
Welcome her in the Lord as is appropriate for saints, and provide her with anything she may need from you, for she has assisted many people, including me.

NET Bible
so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and provide her with whatever help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many, including me.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
That you would accept her in Our Lord, as that is right for Saints, and in any matter that she seeks of you, that you would help her, because she is also a helper to many and also to me.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Give her a Christian welcome that shows you are God's holy people. Provide her with anything she may need, because she has provided help to many people, including me.

Jubilee Bible 2000
that ye receive her in the Lord as a worthy saint, and that ye assist her in whatever thing in which she has need of you, for she has been a helper of many and of myself also.

King James 2000 Bible
That you receive her in the Lord, as becomes saints, and that you assist her in whatever business she has need of you: for she has been a helper of many, and of myself also.

American King James Version
That you receive her in the Lord, as becomes saints, and that you assist her in whatever business she has need of you: for she has been a succorer of many, and of myself also.

American Standard Version
that ye receive her in the Lord, worthily of the saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever matter she may have need of you: for she herself also hath been a helper of many, and of mine own self.

Douay-Rheims Bible
That you receive her in the Lord as becometh saints; and that you assist her in whatsoever business she shall have need of you. For she also hath assisted many, and myself also.

Darby Bible Translation
that ye may receive her in the Lord worthily of saints, and that ye may assist her in whatever matter she has need of you; for she also has been a helper of many, and of myself.

English Revised Version
that ye receive her in the Lord, worthily of the saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever matter she may have need of you: for she herself also hath been a succourer of many, and of mine own self.

Webster's Bible Translation
That ye receive her in the Lord, as it becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succorer of many, and of myself also.

Weymouth New Testament
that you may receive her as a fellow Christian in a manner worthy of God's people, and may assist her in any matter in which she may need help. For she has indeed been a kind friend to many, including myself.

World English Bible
that you receive her in the Lord, in a way worthy of the saints, and that you assist her in whatever matter she may need from you, for she herself also has been a helper of many, and of my own self.

Phoebe was a "helper" (not Paul's or anyone else's "ruler") - this is precisely what the Greek word denotes - as is demonstrated in all of the translations above, which combines hundreds of professional linguists & translators (working both independent of & in conjunction with one another)

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