End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

BUMP

This is for those who may have missed it

And you might wanna' "bump" my in-depth response that I've provided over & over & over & over - just in case someone "missed" it (apparently every one but you has seen it) !

[Roxanne Murphy]

Wow, rdp, it is okay to read things into the scriptures that aren't there (as in uncut hair on women), but NOT okay to read what the scripture DOES teach about women preachers?
In the Ephesians 4:11-12 definition of the five fold ministry, the Greek word from which we translate prophet simply means "an inspired speaker". This fits with the fulfilling of Joel's prophecy referenced by Peter on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:17-18) the Greek word translated "prophesy" means to foretell events, to divine, to speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office.
In Acts 21:8-9, Paul and company stayed with Philip the evangelist and his four daughters which did prophesy (same Greek word as used in Acts 2:17-18). There is no mention of Paul telling Philip or his daughters that they were out of order, and I would expect to see this if they were disobeying what you claim to be Paul's teaching against women preachers.
Truly, there is definitely gnat straining and camel swallowing happening here.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

and I did say I was going to paste.....nothing wrong with that...
NO WHERE in the BIBLE does it say a woman cannot preach...but it does say, GO ye into all the world and preach....and it dows say those that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching. ....

Yes, Sister Alvear - the Bible very clearly forbids women from "preaching/teaching" men in the church - could not be clearer & you've been caught making innumerable textual mistakes already .


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.








You're simply (& stubbornly) refusing to accept the biblical witness.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

That's why I won't answer his posts when he asks if I believe the scripture he posted. He doesn't even believe it himself. LOL!

If women are to be silent in church, let them be silent. That means NO TALKING, SINGING, nothing but SILENCE!!

LOL!

[COLOR="Blue"] - Anything to skirt the issue 'eh! LOL - Have already answered this sophmoric objection over & over & over & over & over.



Ready? Y'all read reeeeeeeallllll slow 'kay?



The context is specifically dealing with both the gifts of the Spirit & someone taking the floor to speak. In that "context" (did y'all catch that?) Paul forbids women from officially speaking to the church. Did y'all not read that I pointed out that the verb "speak" in I Cor. 14.34 is also translated as "preach" many times elsewhere?


But, hey, anything to get around the biblical evidence 'eh:


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.




Now, would someone please address Dr. Wallace's email regarding the syntax of I Timothy 2.12 ?


Gune and aner are words which mean 'adult female' and 'adult male' in their unmarked meanings. Only if there are sufficient contextual clues that husband and wife are in view do the words mean 'wife' and 'husband.' The definite article or 'idios' (one's own) or a possessive pronoun is required to show that husband and wife are in the text. None of these things occur in 1 Tim 2. The article occurs in 1 Cor 11, but only because it is syntactically required by the construction. Both passages are clearly talking about the Christian community in worship, which would of course involve single adults and married couples. Take a look at other passages that are clearly speaking about husband and wife--e.g., Eph 5, 1 Peter 3--and you'll see that they use these signals to note that husband and wife are in view.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

Wow, rdp, it is okay to read things into the scriptures that aren't there (as in uncut hair on women), but NOT okay to read what the scripture DOES teach about women preachers?


Ummm, specifically where "does" the Bible teach women can "preach" to men in the church:___________? Guess you folks just make things up as you go along 'eh ??


Yes, it is a sin for women to cut their hair (shall I post the lexical data on the Greek verb translated "shorn" ??



In the Ephesians 4:11-12 definition of the five fold ministry, the Greek word from which we translate prophet simply means "an inspired speaker". This fits with the fulfilling of Joel's prophecy referenced by Peter on the day of Pentecost (see Acts 2:17-18) the Greek word translated "prophesy" means to foretell events, to divine, to speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office.
In Acts 21:8-9, Paul and company stayed with Philip the evangelist and his four daughters which did prophesy (same Greek word as used in Acts 2:17-18). There is no mention of Paul telling Philip or his daughters that they were out of order, and I would expect to see this if they were disobeying what you claim to be Paul's teaching against women preachers.
Truly, there is definitely gnat straining and camel swallowing happening here.

???


What "Bible" are you reading that says women can "preach" to men in the church & allows women to cut their hair????? The Bible is quite clear on both issues?? What text above specifically states that women "preached/taught" men in the church:___________?



Might wanna' check 2 Jude - Surely does not exist in any other Bible passage .

[rdp]

Ok - Gotta' run to church. Check back in later tonight to continue the party !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Right. No definitions regarding the ministry of evangelist/preacher given by Paul. None. Jesus first defined it. It is a ministry given to ALL, men and women. Yes, in Acts 8 ... much as RDP will not admit ... that verse does include both men and women preaching. Men and women went to prison, and men and women went about preaching.

Ummm, specifically where does Acts 8 state that women were preaching-teaching men in the church:____________?


How can I "admit" what does not exist in the biblical data?


The early church also included infants - guess they were equally "preaching the gospel" !


Lemme' Guess - I "did not answer you"...right ??

[Roxanne Murphy]

You are entertaining, if not wearisome, rdp. In typical holiness preacher style you say much but really say nothing. And before you have a Greek lexicon accident/injury, let me help you a little bit because in these scriptures:

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (1 Corinthians 11:5, 6 KJV)

the Bible does not use the word 'sin' in reference to a woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered. And there is that same pesky Greek word again translated as 'prophesy', and it speaking specifically about a woman in a public worship service where men are present. If she isn't even supposed to be prophesying at all, why does the apostle Paul mention it in this passage? See, when trying to understand what The Bible says about any subject, it is necessary to look at every text on that subject. Then the truth is seen. Otherwise, you end up with people with an agenda wresting scriptures to their own destruction because the search the scriptures, not to find eternal life, but to prop up their doctrinal positions.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

You are entertaining, if not wearisome, rdp. In typical holiness preacher style you say much but really say nothing. And before you have a Greek lexicon accident/injury, let me help you a little bit because in these scriptures:

Yea, I know, to the typical wordly-liberal simple Bible quotations are somehow relegated to "saying nothing" - par for the course on AFF .


Actually, it is Y-O-U who needs the "help" in the area of lexicons & the original languages of the Bible - you have done absolutely no-such thing below (but take heart, you're not alone ). Here, let me demonstrate your textual errors below:



But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (1 Corinthians 11:5, 6 KJV)


"And since it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or her head shaved, then she should have long hair" (I Cor. 11:6; NLT f.n.).


See how easy that was ?


Shall I whip out a few grammars on the verb usage in this passage & let's see where that lands ya' (nawwww - I'll just let you make the first move )?



the Bible does not use the word 'sin' in reference to a woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered.


Here, let me show you your error: The Greek noun translated “Shame/Disgrace” (vs. 6); BAGD, pg. 25: “it is disgraceful…for a woman to cut her hair.” Thayer’s; pg. 17: “disgrace, dishonorable.” This is the same GK. word used in Eph. 5:12 of, “the unfruitful works of darkness” & Titus 1:10-11 of certain Jews who were “ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach for the sake of dishonest gain” (NIV). Using your logic, it's okay to practice something deemed as a "disgrace" - a Greek word ALWAYS used to denote outright sin. This is a very strong word denoting a strong offense.


BTW, since you probably do not know what the lexical abbreviations are above - BAGD stands for Bauer's Greek-English lexicon; 2nd ed. (one of the most in-depth lexicons on the grammatical market). Glad I could help !




And there is that same pesky Greek word again translated as 'prophesy', and it speaking specifically about a woman in a public worship service where men are present.


Ummm, specifically in what way do you think "prophecy" negates the crystal-clear prohibitions below:


11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.....I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church.


29 Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said. 30 But if someone is prophesying and another person receives a revelation from the Lord, the one who is speaking must stop. 31 In this way, all who prophesy will have a turn to speak, one after the other, so that everyone will learn and be encouraged. 32 Remember that people who prophesy are in control of their spirit and can take turns. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the meetings of God’s holy people.

34 Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.



It is for the reason underlined & bolded above that many exegetes feel that Paul is forbidding women from speaking out in the evaluation of prophecy since the restriction appears immediately following his instructions regarding "evaluating" prophecy.


Though this equal to pouring water down a duck's back - I have repeatedly pointed out that the Greek verb translated "speak" (λαλεῖν) is equally translated as "preach" in no less than six other places in the NT! Hmmmm. Also, here is some lexical data on this verb: "preach, say, speak. A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. Utter words -- preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter" (http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2980.htm).


Regardless what interpretation someone appends onto this passage, absolutely no one will read this passage & conclude that God approves of "women-preachers"......Don't blame me, you did it to yourself !



If she isn't even supposed to be prophesying at all, why does the apostle Paul mention it in this passage?


Ummm, it's blatantly obvious you've not read this whole thread - or either you have a reading-comprehension problem . Of course women can be used in the gift of prophecy - And, what's your point? How on earth do you think somehow validates women in the set-in office of the 5-fold ministry ?


If you would've taken the time to read before attacking a straw-man propped up by your fertile imagination you would've seen that the Greek verb translated "prophesying" (προφητεύουσα) in I Cor. 11:5 is defined as "foretelling future events pertaining especially to the kingdom of God; to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or in praise of the divine counsels — or, under the like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others (see προφήτης, II. 1 f.), 1 Corinthians 11:4, 5;" (http://biblehub.com/greek/4395.htm).


Do you somehow think "prophecy" is sermon from the Scriptures ?? And you're expecting me to let you "help" me out - when it's glaringly apparent that you're the one needing the "help"?



See, when trying to understand what The Bible says about any subject, it is necessary to look at every text on that subject. Then the truth is seen. Otherwise, you end up with people with an agenda wresting scriptures to their own destruction because the search the scriptures, not to find eternal life, but to prop up their doctrinal positions.

Very good, now, using your own statement above, specifically where in the Biblical data can read where a woman "preached" to a congregation of ANY sort out of the Scriptures:__________?


And, I couldn't agree more about folks who are "wresting scriptures to their own destruction because they search the scriptures, not to find eternal life, but to prop up their doctrinal positions" - very good - now, see thyself, because this is EXACTLY what you & others on this thread are doing. Couldn't have said it better myself !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by n david

He's said he would. You understand people can disagree over certain issues, but still respect and pray for each other. I know it's a foreign concept in this divisive age, but it's true.

All I've read of RDP is while he disagrees on this issue, he still loves, respects and prays for Sis Alvear. IIRC, he's even financially supported their missionary work.