End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by rdp

Ok, so I clicked on the link you provided, and this is what it says:
anér: a man
Original Word: ἀνήρ, ἀνδρός, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: anér
Phonetic Spelling: (an'-ayr)
Short Definition: a male human being, a man
Definition: a male human being; a man, husband.


Apparently you overlooked the fact that "husband" is merely a secondary meaning & ONLY if there are possessive markings in the text - which there are not in I Timothy 2.11-15 (which is also the reason hardly ANY linguists have adopted y'all quirky-esoteric "translation" ).


But, hey, I'm a fair man - I'll quote from renown linguist Dr. Joseph Thayer what you omitted from the same link :


ἀνήρ, ἀνδρός, ὁ, a man, Latinvir. The meanings of this word in the N. T. differ in no respect from classic usage; for it is employed

1. with a reference to sex, and so to distinguish a man from a woman; either a. as a male: Acts 8:12; Acts 17:12; 1 Timothy 2:12; or b. as a husband: Matthew 1:16; Mark 10:2; John 4:16ff; Romans 7:2ff; 1 Corinthians 7:2ff; Galatians 4:27; 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6, etc.; a betrothed or future husband: Matthew 1:19; Revelation 21:2, etc.


Did ya' catch that? I Timothy 2.12 is translated under the category of "so to distinguish a man from a woman...a. as a male" - Not under heading "B" (i.e., the secondary meaning) of a "husband." Might need to learn hoe to read a lexicon before you chide me for my resources .


Right there in bold is the word husband. Now I know that you say that in the context that Paul couldn't possibly be talking about a husband. Well, that's your opinion. Let's look at that scripture in context again.


No, it is grammatical fact (as I'll once again demonstrate below) & not my "opinion" - you simply have an anti-biblical tradition you're desperately trying to protect & thus you've stubbornly dug in your heels. See it all the time .

8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Now unless I overlooked something, I did not see either the word "husband" or "wife" in this nor the following translations. Hmmm, what do you see (with no formal training Koine' Greek) that alllllll of these professional linguists missed ?


New International Version
But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

New Living Translation
But women will be saved through childbearing, assuming they continue to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.

English Standard Version
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

New American Standard Bible
But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

King James Bible
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But she will be saved through childbearing, if she continues in faith, love, and holiness, with good judgment.

International Standard Version
even though she will be saved through the birth of the Child, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, along with good judgment.

NET Bible
But she will be delivered through childbearing, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with self-control.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But she lives by her children, if they continue in faith and in love, in holiness and in modesty.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
However, she [and all women] will be saved through the birth of the child, if they lead respectable lives in faith, love, and holiness.

Jubilee Bible 2000
notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if she continues in faith and charity and sanctification and modesty.

King James 2000 Bible
Yet she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with propriety.

American King James Version
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

American Standard Version
but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

Darby Bible Translation
But she shall be preserved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and holiness with discretion.

English Revised Version
but she shall be saved through the childbearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.

Webster's Bible Translation
Notwithstanding, she will be saved in child-bearing, if they continue in faith, and charity, and holiness, with sobriety.

Weymouth New Testament
Yet a woman will be brought safely through childbirth if she and her husband continue to live in faith and love and growing holiness, with habitual self-restraint.



The "context" is discussing man & woman (just as it's translated by literally hundreds of professional lingusist) - NOT "husband" & "wife." Why? Hmm, let's see, what did the foremost Greek scholar on the planet tell me again?


Gune and aner are words which mean 'adult female' and 'adult male' in their unmarked meanings. Only if there are sufficient contextual clues that husband and wife are in view do the words mean 'wife' and 'husband.' The definite article or 'idios' (one's own) or a possessive pronoun is required to show that husband and wife are in the text. None of these things occur in 1 Tim 2. The article occurs in 1 Cor 11, but only because it is syntactically required by the construction. Both passages are clearly talking about the Christian community in worship, which would of course involve single adults and married couples. Take a look at other passages that are clearly speaking about husband and wife--e.g., Eph 5, 1 Peter 3--and you'll see that they use these signals to note that husband and wife are in view.



Ignore it all y'all want - it isn't going to disappear .



This is my opinion too, because... no one of us can know exactly the mind of Paul as he was writing, but in looking at this verse from the context of the passage it was found in, Paul is addressing the husband/wife issue here, and which is why the word HUSBAND could certainly be used here (using your source as the reference for husband), as he mentions that the woman (wife) would be saved in childbearing. A single woman, or widow is not childbearing, a wife would be the only one childbearing. So, the context IS husband/wife.


No, the "context" can never violate the actual "text" - which says absolutely nothing about a "husband" or "wife," that is supplied by the pro-"woman-preacher" camp - no the biblical text itself.


The Scripture is simply saying that even though woman was the one to be "deceived" & "fall into transgression" - "nevertheless" (important term), normatively speaking, God has made a way-out for her via childbearing. This is what the actual text says, teaches, & is the very careful exegetical conclusion.


But, let's take your quirky interpretation for a moment. If this is talking about a "wife" not instructing her "husband" - then does God only "call" single women to "preach" ? Or, if somehow discussing the home-order, does that "order" suddenly do a 180 degree flip when they go to church ? Hmmm, strange that Paul appealed to the order of the home as the reflection of the order of the church, "(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)."


Sorry - Think I'll stick with the Bible & let y'all have your own private interpretation in order to mold your lifestyle preferences into God's Word .



Now, I realize that with all your study of Greek, that it is possible that "much learning hath made you mad" (really, I believe you are sincere, and don't hold that against you). However, you have your opinion about the verse, which is fine. We have ours. Opinions may never meet. But, you continue to choose to acknowledge the fact that Paul taught a woman can prophesy in the church, but get hung up on the "remain silent in church", but you have NEVER SAID how that can be possible.


LOL - I have addressed that issue ad nauseum on here. Good debate tactic though. Perhaps some will be naive enough to not see what you're doing, but you're merely feigning the high ground of "victory" in order to save face in light of a losing argument. This, you do by claiming I've not answered you when I've answered you over-over-over-over-over-over & OVER !


I have stated that it is possible when a wife is in submission to her husband, that being under his authority, if she has been given a word from the Lord, she can speak.



You are looking at the forest without seeing the trees. Jesus talked ALONE to the Samaritan woman. Why would he do that? How awful, for a MAN to be ALONE with a woman. And then, after He talked to her ALONE, what did she do?


What she did NOT do is "preach a sermon from the Scriptures" ! Here, since y'all are apparently overlooking the straight question & absolutely refusing to provide ANY response whatsoever, I'll ask it again: Please provide for me one biblical text, in either the OT or NT where a woman ever once preached to any congregation out of the Scriptures:______________?



Cont.....

Bump of my rebuttal to KeptByTheWord (her assertions appear in plain black & my responses appear in either bold red or blue) - For those that missed it .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by rdp

Let's read the verse and see what she did:

John 4
27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?

28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,

29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

Kinda' missed something there didn't ya'? Here, let me point out a few things for you. First, notice that the apostles could not believe He was talking with a woman one-one-one: At this point His disciples came, and they were amazed that He had been speaking with a woman, yet no one said, "What do You seek?" or, "Why do You speak with her?" (NASB).


Did ya' catch that? Their reaction well demonstrates that it was not normal for a man to talking to a woman one-on-one - my whole point! Second, the difference between a modern women or man privately speaking with another man or woman is - ready? - Jesus Christ was sinless & we are not!


No man or woman has any business conversing with another man or woman for very long in private without their spouse either present or aware it (& I would hardly advise even that, except in extraordinary circumstances).

You see, Jesus talked with the Samaritan lady, alone, while his disciples were off buying food. Then, the Samaritan women, went and told the MEN to come and see a man who told me all the things I ever did.

And you know what... many of the Samaritans of that city believed for the saying of the woman.


And?? Do you think this somehow validates "women-preachers" in the set-in official capacity of the 5-fold ministry ? So now every one who tells any one about what Jesus did for them is automatically & officially in the set-in office of the 5-fold ministry ? You can't be serious?



She was the FIRST WOMAN EVANGELIST Jesus sent... and a very effective one at that.


Oh my goodness - I seriously hope this is some sort of a "chain-yanking-fest" here ? Specifically where can we read in this (or ANY OTHER BIBLICAL TEXT) that she took a text from the Scriptures & exposited the Word to the Samaritans:___________? Hear that background music ? You're simply assuming into the text what you cannot provide from the same - also called "circular reasoning" .

God Bless you Bro. RDP... but I feel sorry for you, that you would never accept a woman who has been sent by God to preach the gospel. If this woman had listened to the disciples, who were aghast that Jesus would talk to this woman alone, none of those Samaritans would have heard the word of God.

To obey GOD is better than to obey the traditions of men.


I could not agree more - "To obey GOD is better than to obey the traditions of men" - which is PRECISELY the reason I reject "women-preachers." I "obey" the following:


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

King James Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

King James 2000 Bible
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American King James Version
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Webster's Bible Translation
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.


Still there - & "ain't goin' no-where" - despite how hard y'all fight it !

Continued bump of my rebuttal to KeptByTheWord (her assertions appear in plain black & my responses appear in either bold red or blue) - For those that missed it .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

One area that RDP refuses to admit that he has inserted his own interpretation of, is regarding the word "silence". In our past discussions, he has always used the scripture in 1 Tim. 2 about a woman remaining silent. Yet, he has also said that a woman is free to sing, pray, prophesy, etc. in his church, only that she cannot stand behind the pulpit and expound on scriptures. So therefore, that is HIS interpretation of that scripture.


Please demonstrate specifically where I have "said" anything about a "pulpit" or even a 'building"? More unwarranted & outright false info. on me (all to cram in your false doctrine). I have directly explained this issue in-depth to you over & over to you. Your response? "You've never answered me" ?? *Sigh* .


Further, we've repeatedly explained that biblical "prophecy" is NOT reading a text from the Scriptures & "preaching" to a congregation. Ummm, if you remember correctly you agreed !




The word silence means the following, per Webster's dictionary...

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
1. (n.) The state of being silent; entire absence of sound or noise; absolute stillness.
2. (n.) Forbearance from, or absence of, speech; taciturnity; muteness.
3. (n.) Secrecy; as, these things were transacted in silence.
4. (n.) The cessation of rage, agitation, or tumult; calmness; quiet; as, the elements were reduced to silence.
5. (n.) Absence of mention; oblivion.
6. (interj.) Be silent; -- used elliptically for let there be silence, or keep silence.
7. (v. t.) To compel to silence; to cause to be still; to still; to hush.
8. (v. t.) To put to rest; to quiet.
9. (v. t.) To restrain from the exercise of any function, privilege of instruction, or the like, especially from the act of preaching; as, to silence a minister of the gospel.
10. (v. t.) To cause to cease firing, as by a vigorous cannonade; as, to silence the batteries of an enemy.

Oh my goodness - ol' "Brother Webster" again . It is clear you need some training in hermeneutics-proper .


And, the context of I Corinthians 11 & Chapter 14 are not the same - & you've been shown this over & over. Good grief - can you people not read ? Here, let's try it again shall we?


In I Cor 12 Paul switches subject matters from chapter 11 by beginning with "12:1 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed....4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.


Can you not see how you're meshing two entirely separate contexts & subject-matters?/ And, this is at least the 2nd or 3rd time I've shown you this ?



Silence is the absence of sound or noise, and absolute stillness. By this definition, a woman should not make so much as a peep in a church service. Bro. RDP has still not explained how a woman must be silent, according to this definition, and yet still prophecy, sing, testify etc. (of which the woman in his church can do).


LOL - Not "my definition," it's called biblical "contexts" - which "woman-preacher" advocates do not comprehend how to distinguish. It's a sign of poor scholarship & shoddy study habits - in sum, it's willful ignorance.



So... he has placed his OWN interpretation on this scripture, and beats everyone over the head who does not see it his way. I have not gotten a straight answer from him on this point, and won't, I'm sure. He will just post pages and pages of bible translations that serve to basically take up space, and detract from the discussion.


LOL - Yea', what on earth was I thinking using the Bible to respond to your constant badgering queries THAT HAVE BEEN ANSWERED OVER & OVER & OVER & OVER & OVER. This is just plain-out weird . Hmmm, let's see, I've demonstrated very careful exegesis, syntax, context, plain Bible, specific Greek word-definitions, etc., etc. - But, hey, in the wacky-world of "KeptByTheWord" (a misnomer BTW) - I'm somehow dodging her .


But, while we're discussing what has been ignored like the bubonic plague - would you please demonstrate your exegetical objections to foremost Greek scholar of our day, Dr. Daniel Wallace's careful syntactical points below regarding how your "home" interpretation of I Timothy 2.11-14 absolutely CANNOT be proper - & actually violates the inspired grammar?


Here, I'm such a gentleman I'll post it for about the 10th time (to only be completely ignored once again I'm sure ):


"Gune and aner are words which mean 'adult female' and 'adult male' in their unmarked meanings. Only if there are sufficient contextual clues that husband and wife are in view do the words mean 'wife' and 'husband.' The definite article or 'idios' (one's own) or a possessive pronoun is required to show that husband and wife are in the text. None of these things occur in 1 Tim 2. The article occurs in 1 Cor 11, but only because it is syntactically required by the construction. Both passages are clearly talking about the Christian community in worship, which would of course involve single adults and married couples. Take a look at other passages that are clearly speaking about husband and wife--e.g., Eph. 5, 1 Peter 3--and you'll see that they use these signals to note that husband and wife are in view."



Even enlarged the print for ya' since y'all apparently cannot read it !



When RDP can explain how a woman can be silent without making a sound/noise, and remain in absolute stillness, and still prophecy, sing, testify etc., that will be exciting indeed.



Umm, for about the 5th time now, I Cor. 14 is discussing the gifts of the Spirit &, in particular the evaluation of prophecy. In THIS context, yes, women are to keep entirely silent. The Greek verb is also translated & defined as "preach" & yes, women are to keep entirely silent when it comes to "preaching".


I Cor. 11 is NOT at all discussing the same topic that Chpp. 12-14 is & in THIS context (Chp. 11) of women praying or prophesying (which, again is NOT nor has EVER been a "sermon from the Scriptures") women can utter words. Diff. context...Diff. meaning - simple.


Your logic is the same that says, "Well, Paul said to 'Bear one another's burdens' & also that 'each will have to bear his own load.' How can we bear one another's burden all the while we have to bear our own load" (See Gal. 6.2 & 5). Simply put, you do not understand how to synergize Scripture, but seek to set Scripture against itself when you cannot seem to harmonize distinct contexts (again, another sure sign of poor study-methods).


Now, this is about the 5th time I've taken (or actually wasted) the time to try to help you in handling your same ol' questions over & over. Will you PLEASE explain why the syntax of I Tim. 2 does not mean what it says above (e.g., Dr. Wallace's quote)???



In all fairness, in all of Paul's teachings, he never allows for a woman to be in authority over men, as I've said in previous posts. It just goes against biblical headship and order.






However, women do have a place in the ministry as evangelists, and spreading the good news of the gospel. Jesus called ALL (meaning all spirit filled believers) to be preachers of the gospel, to share the good news. Everyone of us should be preaching the gospel wherever we go. Spirit filled believers are ALL evangelists.



I have stated that I certainly believe that both men & women should win the lost. How on earth does this negate the following passage regarding church meetings of believers?


"11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor....I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church."


THERE IS NO DIRECTIVE GIVEN BY PAUL AS TO AN EVANGELIST IN ANY OF HIS WRITINGS. Therefore, anyone can be an evangelist/preacher. There are plenty of directives for other aspects of the ministry, but the work of an evangelist was first defined by Jesus, and Paul never added or took away from that.

The work of an evangelist/preacher is to GO PREACH THE GOSPEL, and this is given to ALL who have received the spirit.


Yes, I agree that both men & women should win the lost, but how does this somehow allow for women to instruct men from the Bible in the church contra I Tim. 2.11-3.15 - or even outside of the church for that matter inasmuch as single saved women have no business teaching Bible studies to unsaved men (not very wise)??


In normal situations men should win men & women should win women - simple. Though I suppose there are some rare exceptions due to dire circumstances, normatively speaking, saved single women should NOT be teaching unsaved single men Bible studies - esp. when there's plenty of men in the church to do the job!


Some of this was discussed before in this thread, but knowing how difficult it is to go through pages and pages and pages of discussion, I have posted it again for those who are interested.

Y'all simply refuse to allow distinct contexts & texts to stand equally on their own merits. Worse, most on here are stubbornly refusing to allow for the crystal-clear instructions to the NT church. It is called "willful ignorance" in the Bible - & rest assured y'all will have to give an account for your outright false information.


Sis. Alvear has been caught over & over posting outright-complete misinformation & extremely poor argumentation. Her response? Ignore the textual facts & keep plodding along copy-pasting the same error (e.g., Phoebe, Prisca, I Timothy 2.11-14, etc., etc.).


At the end of the day, "women-preacher" advocates are simply doing what they want to do in the face of clear Scripture. It's called "Religious Humanism" - & is equal to a dethroning of God in said individuals life....Truly sad.


Check back later tonight (Monday) to continue the party !

[Roxanne Murphy]

I see how it works: we must be willing to take your definition of what a preacher does/is, and then make the Bible fit around it.
So, I guess that poor old Noah wasn't REALLY a preacher because he didn't 'take a text from scripture' as that was not really possible there was no scripture at that time from which to 'take a text'. That is just one more ego centric, stuck in the mid to late 20th century and forcing that filter onto God's Word, terrible abuse of the pure Word of God.
And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2 Peter 2:5 KJV)
Anyway, it is very clear that you have defined and crystallized your theology, flaws and all. And so that is how you answer everything, from the barricades of your own self baked doctrine. And saddest of all, you teach this to others.

[Roxanne Murphy]

And, when you can't get your Greek lexicon to say what you want, you default to good old Mirriam-Webster. Lame, lame, lame.
If by the grace of God you make it to heaven, what you find will probably scare you and shock you, for there will be many there who, by your judgment, are sinners, but by God's Word unadulterated, they are redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus.

[Sister Alvear]

Salmos 68:11 ASV
American Standard Version
The Lord giveth the word: The women that publish the tidings are a great host.
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Salmos 68:11 BBE
Bible in Basic English
The Lord gives the word; great is the number of the women who make it public.
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Salmos 68:11 CEB
Common English Bible
My Lord gives the command— many messengers are bringing good news:
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Salmos 68:11 CJB
Complete Jewish Bible
Adonai gives the command; the women with the good news are a mighty army.
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Salmos 68:11 RHE
Douay-Rheims
(67-12) The Lord shall give the word to them that preach good tidings with great power.
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Salmos 68:11 ESV
English Standard Version
The Lord gives the word; the women who announce the news are a great host:
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Salmos 68:11 GW
GOD'S WORD Translation
The Lord gives instructions. The women who announce the good news are a large army.
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Salmos 68:11 GNT
Good News Translation
The Lord gave the command, and many women carried the news:
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Salmos 68:11 HNV
Hebrew Names Version
The Lord announced the word. The ones who proclaim it are a great company.
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Salmos 68:11 CSB
Holman Christian Standard
The Lord gave the command; a great company of women brought the good news:
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Salmos 68:11 KJV
King James Version
The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.
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Salmos 68:11 LEB
Lexham English Bible
The Lord gives [the] word. Great is the company of women who announce:
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Salmos 68:11 NAS
New American Standard
The Lord gives the command ; The women who proclaim the good tidings are a great host :
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Salmos 68:11 NCV
New Century Version
The Lord gave the command, and a great army told the news:
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Salmos 68:11 NIRV
New International Reader's Version
The Lord gave a message. Many people made it widely known.
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Salmos 68:11 NIV
New International Version
The Lord announced the word, and great was the company of those who proclaimed it:
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Salmos 68:11 NKJV
New King James Version
The Lord gave the word; Great was the company of those who proclaimed it:
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Salmos 68:11 NLT
New Living Translation
The Lord announces victory, and throngs of women shout the happy news.
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Salmos 68:11 NRS
New Revised Standard
The Lord gives the command; great is the company of those who bore the tidings:
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Salmos 68:11 RSV
Revised Standard Version
The Lord gives the command; great is the host of those who bore the tidings:
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Salmos 68:11 DBY
The Darby Translation
The Lord gives the word: great the host of the publishers.
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Salmos 68:11 MSG
The Message
The Lord gave the word; thousands called out the good news:
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Salmos 68:11 WBT
The Webster Bible
The Lord gave the word: great [was] the company of those that published [it].
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Salmos 68:11 TMB
Third Millennium Bible
The Lord gave the word; great was the company of those that proclaimed it.
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Salmos 68:11 TNIV
Today's New International Version
The Lord announced the word, and great was the company of those who proclaimed it:
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Salmos 68:11 WEB
World English Bible
The Lord announced the word. The ones who proclaim it are a great company.
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Salmos 68:11 WYC
Wycliffe
The Lord shall give a word; to them that preach the gospel with much virtue. (The Lord gave the word; and many women preached this good news.)
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Salmos 68:11 YLT
Young's Literal Translation
The Lord doth give the saying, The female proclaimers [are] a numerous host.
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Whatever that may mean to you I am just glad to be a part of a host of ladies that have proclaimed HIS word... I started proclaiming when I was 12...so that was almost 52 years ago....

[Sister Alvear]

בַר אֱנָשׁ (bar_enosh) answered 3 years ago
אֲדֹנָי יִתֶּן־אֹמֶר הַֽמְבַשְּׂרֹות צָבָא רָֽב׃ -- Psalm 68:11, Hebrew Text (numbered 68:12 in Hebrew)

The word הַֽמְבַשְּׂרֹות , "those bearing news," is grammatically a feminine plural participle in Hebrew.

If it were meant to apply to men, it would likely have used a masculine form.

"The LORD gives a command; the women who bring the news are a great host." -- Psalm 68:11 (68:12 in Hebrew), The Tanakh (published by the Jewish Publication Society, 1985)
Source(s):
The HOLY Bible

[Sister Alvear]

I am not a person learned in Hebrew...studied it for a year a long time ago however we use the mas. and fem. forms also in Portuguese and Spanish....languages I do understand.

[Sister Alvear]

I know there are a lots of different opinions about this verse but the fact remains the ones that took the message were women...

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

One area that RDP refuses to admit that he has inserted his own interpretation of, is regarding the word "silence". In our past discussions, he has always used the scripture in 1 Tim. 2 about a woman remaining silent. Yet, he has also said that a woman is free to sing, pray, prophesy, etc. in his church, only that she cannot stand behind the pulpit and expound on scriptures. So therefore, that is HIS interpretation of that scripture.

The word silence means the following, per Webster's dictionary...

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
1. (n.) The state of being silent; entire absence of sound or noise; absolute stillness.
2. (n.) Forbearance from, or absence of, speech; taciturnity; muteness.
3. (n.) Secrecy; as, these things were transacted in silence.
4. (n.) The cessation of rage, agitation, or tumult; calmness; quiet; as, the elements were reduced to silence.
5. (n.) Absence of mention; oblivion.
6. (interj.) Be silent; -- used elliptically for let there be silence, or keep silence.
7. (v. t.) To compel to silence; to cause to be still; to still; to hush.
8. (v. t.) To put to rest; to quiet.
9. (v. t.) To restrain from the exercise of any function, privilege of instruction, or the like, especially from the act of preaching; as, to silence a minister of the gospel.
10. (v. t.) To cause to cease firing, as by a vigorous cannonade; as, to silence the batteries of an enemy.

Silence is the absence of sound or noise, and absolute stillness. By this definition, a woman should not make so much as a peep in a church service. Bro. RDP has still not explained how a woman must be silent, according to this definition, and yet still prophecy, sing, testify etc. (of which the woman in his church can do).

So... he has placed his OWN interpretation on this scripture, and beats everyone over the head who does not see it his way. I have not gotten a straight answer from him on this point, and won't, I'm sure. He will just post pages and pages of bible translations that serve to basically take up space, and detract from the discussion.

When RDP can explain how a woman can be silent without making a sound/noise, and remain in absolute stillness, and still prophecy, sing, testify etc., that will be exciting indeed.

In all fairness, in all of Paul's teachings, he never allows for a woman to be in authority over men, as I've said in previous posts. It just goes against biblical headship and order.

However, women do have a place in the ministry as evangelists, and spreading the good news of the gospel. Jesus called ALL (meaning all spirit filled believers) to be preachers of the gospel, to share the good news. Everyone of us should be preaching the gospel wherever we go. Spirit filled believers are ALL evangelists.

THERE IS NO DIRECTIVE GIVEN BY PAUL AS TO AN EVANGELIST IN ANY OF HIS WRITINGS. Therefore, anyone can be an evangelist/preacher. There are plenty of directives for other aspects of the ministry, but the work of an evangelist was first defined by Jesus, and Paul never added or took away from that.

The work of an evangelist/preacher is to GO PREACH THE GOSPEL, and this is given to ALL who have received the spirit.

Some of this was discussed before in this thread, but knowing how difficult it is to go through pages and pages and pages of discussion, I have posted it again for those who are interested.

BUMP for RDP... he apparently must have missed the bolded question, as he completely ignored it, because he HAS NO ANSWER

Either Paul was contradicting himself when he said a woman had to keep silent (be absent of all noise, talk, speech) in the church, but yet could prophesy in the church... or Paul was addressing a different issue in those scriptural settings, the latter being what Sis. Alvear and I have labored to show him, yet he has blinders on, and will not receive it.

RDP is CONTRADICTING himself when he says a woman must keep silent, but then says she can prophesy. The two do not meet in that understanding.

Let's see if he addresses this issue specifically, or just piles on the millionth lexicon/concordance/translation here to avoid answering.