Random Revival Rhetoric

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Dante

"Revival happens When the pastor and the praiser make a Holy Ghost connection." - Cort Chaviss

Silly me! I was under the impression that "revival" was the result of a spontaneous and unprovoked reaction of the Holy Spirit. I had no idea that "revival" could be triggered with a formula.

I hate bumper sticker theology. We have become so used to cute catch phrases that we no longer rely on what the word of God says.

BTW Funny how there are two classes of believers...Pastors and Praisers?

[A239]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

you don't believe, you don't receive.

Proves my point. It's all based on your beliefs not how hard or loud someone prays, it's not based on if you stay there forever, just follow the bible, and if you believe, and do what you believe, you will receive. You don't have to be with someone to pray through. It just sometimes helps.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Your editing skills are impressive or not, David. In order to win the point, you always leave off the explanatory part of a person's statement. I'm beginning to notice a pattern with you.

This is the text with my COMPLETE wording:

It doesn't matter. Even with the full quote, it's not what the verse was about.

I'm not going to argue with you, PO.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I hate bumper sticker theology. We have become so used to cute catch phrases that we no longer rely on what the word of God says.

BTW Funny how there are two classes of believers...Pastors and Praisers?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I hate bumper sticker theology. We have become so used to cute catch phrases that we no longer rely on what the word of God says.

BTW Funny how there are two classes of believers...Pastors and Praisers?

Except that in the context of the Word of God,...

" And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" (Ephesians 4:11-12)

he isn't taking that out of context, nor do I believe he doesn't consider himself a Praiser. I doubt God picks apart our words as much as we do on this forum.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by JacobSauceda

Proves my point. It's all based on your beliefs not how hard or loud someone prays, it's not based on if you stay there forever, just follow the bible, and if you believe, and do what you believe, you will receive. You don't have to be with someone to pray through. It just sometimes helps.

I agree that our belief is much more important than anything. You have to be with God to pray through. Seriously, yes, it does help many times to pray with someone. Albeit, our personal time with God alone is a different and separate issue.

[Dante]

Again, "revival" is a spontaneous sovereign action initiated by the Holy Spirit. Unity, or any other supposed formula cannot trigger "revival" or influence God to perform actions associated with "revival."

[n david]

Originally Posted by Dante

Again, "revival" is a spontaneous sovereign action initiated by the Holy Spirit. Unity, or any other supposed formula cannot trigger "revival" or influence God to perform actions associated with "revival."

[votivesoul]

I shudder to think how many prominently quotable, paid, professional orators there are out there, who can spin a phrase, tickle an ear, and receive the praise of men for their so-called "preaching", but can't, because they won't, go to a house and teach a sinner the Gospel.

How many of these talk about "releasing" their congregations to win souls, but when a lost grandmother is in the hospital facing the grave, they can't be bothered to go on a soul-saving mission.

I know this is uber-cynical, but I dare to say, deserving of many of the current generation of preachers, leaders, and whatever titles they assign to themselves.

Look here:

1 Corinthians 4:18-21,

18. Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.
19. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
20. For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
21. What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

Paul was going to unload a terrible fury upon these people for their pride in thinking that their "eloquent words of man's wisdom" was somehow the equivalent of a demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit.

A cult of personality in a pulpit doesn't mean jack to God.

If we want "revival", how about we have some death first? How about some pruning of the local assembly so the branches that are bearing fruit can bear more fruit, while the un-abiding in the vine dead weight gets torched?

Here is the recipe for all revival, personal and corporate:

Galatians 2:20,

20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Maybe if Jesus lived in us more than we live in (and for) ourselves, we might actually see the glory of God?

And this can't happen from a sermon, or cute illustration. It comes from a travailing burden to hate oneself, to do whatever it takes to perfect holiness in the fear of God, and so, purge ourselves of any iniquity of flesh or spirit.

Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone, right?

But when's the last time one of these "revival" preachers ever put a saint's feet in the fire? When is the last time anyone here has even been to a "revival" service and had the prophet chastise the assembly for dead works and obstinant, refusing to repent and obey the Lord hearts?

Nope. All we ever get is:

- You're called!
- God's got great things in store!
- Revival is coming!
- Ain't nothing going to stop a sovereign move of God!
- This is the year of the double portion!
- Receive it!

Blah, blah, blah.

How about, except ye repent, ye shall likewise perish?

How about, let the dead bury their dead?

How about take up your cross and deny yourself?

None of these "hard saying" are ever mentioned by any of these people.

And so, what happens?

Numbers go up, because it's easy to attend a church that's easy on you.

Find a church with elders who know how to wield the rod, and you'll have a transforming, soul-saving, "revival" church. They may seem small in numbers, but they wax powerfully in the Spirit (not to mention survive the Great Tribulation, hint-hint!).

As much as God loves sinners, He still hates sin.

And there is no unity causing revival without both.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

If the Word had not said, “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” Matthew 18:19-20, I might have agreed with you...

Why this one little phrase uttered by the Lord gets twisted to mean all sorts of things is beyond me.

Matthew 18 is regarding church discipline and how to handle sins and offenses, and if two or three people in the church agree on how to handle such things, the Lord is with them to help them bring about righteousness in the assembly.

Matthew 18:15-20,

15. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Trespass between members of God's church, right? Handled discreetly, without anyone else's influence or interference. Be hopeful for reconciliation.

16. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Step One in the process failed. Now, others in the church have to be involved for the sake of unity.

17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

If Step Two fails, and no reconciliation between the two member of the church is achieved, then the entire assembly has to get involved to have a hearing on the matter. Whoever is found to be the guilty party, he is to no longer be considered a member of the covenanted community of God (i.e. a heathen).

18. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Whatsoever we bind on earth in terms of church discipline ONLY, will be bound in heaven, that is, if the church determines against someone, and decides that the person originally involved in the trespass is a heathen and a publican, then heaven will look at that person the same way.

19. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The two or three here are the two or three witnesses originally called upon to seek and restore reconciliation. But when their counsel is denied or rejected, and they have to, on account of the Lord's teaching here in Matthew 18, initiate a church wide hearing against the offending brother, and the church rules against him, then the Lord is with them in what they are doing, and will respond positively to their petition to guide them in the actions they are undertaking to either restore or ex-communicate the offending member.

Now finish Matthew 18 with the parable about the unjust, unforgiving steward, who was delivered into prison to be tortured. This is the destiny of the heathen/publican who offended earlier and above.

The Lord said our Heavenly Father will do the same to us, should we not forgive. Bound in heaven, remember?

When the church has to legitimately remove one of it's own, God Himself, agrees with the actions of the church, and so, delivers the removed member into torments, i.e. a backslidden, no longer saved state, eventually culminating in eternal damnation, should true repentance never occur.