End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I could not find "Witnessing" in my bible. It calls it "Preaching"...the verses you posted support that. Or should I say verse since it was one verse repeated 4 times

1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching.

BTW if that is what Preaching is then every message in church should be Acts 2:38 all the time to those that believe. I think you missed the point of what Paul was saying and the Translation I posted should help.

the process is to preach salvation to unbelievers so that they become believers

Rom 10:14 But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

I see first of all you all completely ignoring the above passage refutes what you stated earlier. And that was preaching was "to unbelievers and not to the choir."
This verse in 1 Cor 1:21 lets you know you missed it. Preaching also save those who believe!

In regards to witnesseth, it is in the Bible. I do not know what kind of a Bible you have but maybe this will help. By the way, this is one Greek word that is translated into all these other English terms. Not every one who witnesses is a called preacher but every called preacher will witness.

Total KJV Occurrences: 120

witness, 28

Luk 4:22, Luk 11:48, Joh 1:7-8 (2), Joh 1:15, Joh 3:26, Joh 3:28, Joh 5:31-33 (3), Joh 5:36-37 (2), Joh 8:18 (2), Joh 10:25, Joh 15:27, Joh 18:23, Joh 18:37, Act 10:43, Act 15:8, Act 22:5, Act 23:11, Heb 10:15, Heb 11:4, 1Jn 1:2, 1Jn 5:6, 1Jn 5:8, 3Jn 1:6

bear, 21

Luk 11:48, Joh 1:7-8 (2), Joh 3:28, Joh 5:31, Joh 5:36, Joh 8:14, Joh 8:18, Joh 10:25, Joh 15:27, Joh 18:23, Joh 18:37, Act 22:5, Act 23:11, Rom 10:2, 2Co 8:3, Gal 4:15, Col 4:13, 1Jn 1:2, 1Jn 5:7-8 (2)

record, 13

Joh 1:32, Joh 1:34, Joh 8:13-14 (2), Joh 12:17, Joh 19:35, Rom 10:2, 2Co 8:3, Gal 4:15, Col 4:13, 1Jn 5:7, 3Jn 1:12, Rev 1:2

bare, 9

Luk 4:22, Joh 1:15, Joh 1:32, Joh 1:34, Joh 5:33, Joh 12:17, Joh 19:35, Act 15:8, Rev 1:2

testify, 8

Joh 2:25, Joh 3:11, Joh 5:39, Joh 7:7, Joh 15:26, Act 26:5, 1Jn 4:14, Rev 22:16

report, 6

Act 6:3, Act 10:22, Act 22:12, Heb 11:2, Heb 11:39, 3Jn 1:12

testified, 6

Joh 4:39, Joh 4:44, Joh 13:21, 1Co 15:15, 1Jn 5:9, 3Jn 1:3

testifieth, 4

Joh 3:32, Joh 21:24, Heb 7:17, Rev 22:20

beareth, 3

Joh 5:32, Joh 8:18, 1Jn 5:6

gave, 3

Act 13:22, Act 14:3, 1Jn 5:10

obtained, 3

Heb 11:2, Heb 11:4, Heb 11:39

testimony, 3

Act 13:22, Act 14:3, Heb 11:5

witnessed, 3

Rom 3:21, 1Ti 6:13, Heb 7:8

reported, 2

Act 16:2, 1Ti 5:10

well, 2

Act 16:2, 1Ti 5:10

barest, 1

Joh 3:26

bearest, 1

Joh 8:13

testifying, 1

Heb 11:4

witnesses, 1

Mat 23:31

witnesseth, 1

Joh 5:31-32 (2)

witnessing, 1

Act 26:22

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

No? Should they be?

Preacher is not one of the 5 fold ministry

Zodhaites

In the NT, except in 2Pe_2:5 (where it speaks of Noah as the herald of righteousness), the word denotes one who is employed by God in the work of proclaiming salvation (1Ti_2:7 [cf. 1Ti_2:5-6; 2Ti_1:11, where it is conjoined with apóstolos {G652}, apostle]). When both designations are used, kḗrux designates the herald according to his commission and work as a proclaimer, while apóstolos, apostle, indicates more his relationship to the one who sent him. The authority of the herald or preacher lies in the message he has to bring (2Pe_2:5), while the apostle is protected by the authority of his Lord who sends him. In 1Ti_2:7 and 2Ti_1:11, kḗrux is also conjoined with didáskalos (G1320), teacher.

Maybe this is why we fail to read the lost on a larger scale? We are led to believe only a special class of men are to preach when we should all be proclaiming the way of salvation to the Lost. Our "method" has often been whittled down to "Invite them to church to hear our preacher".

Yet most of the people that I see bringing those people to church are said to be just the lay members, non ministers who are doing most of the work of bringing souls to church.

That's messed up. We should ALL be called "the Ministry" and all employed in the work as The Ministry even if all it is is inviting someone to church, but even more we often tell THEM to teach bible studies too and "Intercede".

And yet, just because they don't stand behind the pulpit and sermonize they are not Ministers?

We are all called to serve in some capacity.

Everyone witnesses, we receive power to witness via the Holy Ghost, but not everyone is a sent preacher. If everyone was a called preacher, there would be no need for the qualifications for the ministry. Jesus also would not have named only 12 Apostles from among the disciples. All the tribes in the OT would have also been as qualified as the Levites and sons of Aaron.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

No term such as watchwomen in OT, only watchmen.
No OT female priest.
No female Apostles chosen by Christ
No qualifications for women deacons.
No qualifications for female bishops.

You folks would have an argument if it was not for these stubborn Biblical facts.

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I could not find "Witnessing" in my bible. It calls it "Preaching"...the verses you posted support that. Or should I say verse since it was one verse repeated 4 times

1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world by its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased to save those who believe by the foolishness of preaching.

BTW if that is what Preaching is then every message in church should be Acts 2:38 all the time to those that believe. I think you missed the point of what Paul was saying and the Translation I posted should help.

the process is to preach salvation to unbelievers so that they become believers

Rom 10:14 But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

How silly, don't you know Romans through Revelations was written to those who were called to be saints? If I made all the blunders you have made in the last several posts I think I would be quite and learn instead of offering information rife with error.

Notice how much effort was put into those who were already disciples, and was not this the purpose of ordaining Elders IN ALL THE CHURCHES?

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Act 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Never in all my life have I seen "supposed men of God" calling people silly...so degrading...
I have debated Assembly of God pastors in Brazil, Brazilian national pastors of national works and several times Branhamites and even sat in on a JW elders meeting where they let me ask questions...never did I see such a spirit...

I have little access to the internet but may have better access for a few hours...however I am ashamed to say that the men above are Jesus name oneness men...

The first church went everywhere preaching the word...so should we....Jesus said, Go Ye into all the world and preach...so let us go and annouce Jesus to every man, woman. boy and girl.....

Never in my life have I seen a supposed "missionaries wife" feel it is her calling to degrade Pastors across this country by insinuating they need to go back to Calvary and watch Him die because they don't believe in women preachers.

I have debated several preachers from various orgs and never did they feel compelled to go to a public forum and tell the saints their pastors are shameful or need to go back to Calvary. I am ashamed to say that this woman is a Jesus name oneness woman.

[RJR]

Notice not everyone is called to be an Apostle, teacher and pastor, prophet or evangelist. God gave some, and it was also to perfect the saints, Praxeas!

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

1Ti 2:7..  ..Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Isa 62:6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RJR

I see first of all you all completely ignoring the above passage refutes what you stated earlier.

No I did not completely ignore it. I addressed it. I don't know how you can say you read what posted and then tell me I completely ignored it

And that was preaching was "to unbelievers and not to the choir."
This verse in 1 Cor 1:21 lets you know you missed it. Preaching also save those who believe!

No,it doesn't. I addressed that last time. Did you read what I posted and the Translation I gave? He isn't saying he preached salvation to people who already believed...that implies believers are lost. That's absurd.

It doesn't mean believers still need to become saved. It doesn't say he preached to people who already believe.

It says that THROUGH Preaching those that believe what was preached were saved

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom did not know God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.

Who believe what? What was preached!

1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it was I or they, so we preach, and so you believed.

We are saved BY believing what was preached.

1Co 15:2 by which you also are being kept safe, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

Believed what? What Paul Preached

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without preaching?

Believing follows Preaching. They preached

In regards to witnesseth, it is in the Bible. I do not know what kind of a Bible you have but maybe this will help. By the way, this is one Greek word that is translated into all these other English terms. Not every one who witnesses is a called preacher but every called preacher will witness.

Total KJV Occurrences: 120

witness, 28

Luk 4:22, Luk 11:48, Joh 1:7-8 (2), Joh 1:15, Joh 3:26, Joh 3:28, Joh 5:31-33 (3), Joh 5:36-37 (2), Joh 8:18 (2), Joh 10:25, Joh 15:27, Joh 18:23, Joh 18:37, Act 10:43, Act 15:8, Act 22:5, Act 23:11, Heb 10:15, Heb 11:4, 1Jn 1:2, 1Jn 5:6, 1Jn 5:8, 3Jn 1:6

We are talking about witnessing to the Lost, not being a witness to something. Specifically presenting the saving message to the Lost.

Merely posting everytime the KJV uses the word Witness is not helpful but actually obfuscates the issue


Do you have a specific verse you want to discuss?

Act 8:3 But Saul was ravaging the church, and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.
Act 8:4 Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word.

Zodhaites
euaggelízō; fut. euaggelísō, aor. euēggélisa, from euággelos (n.f.), bringing good news, which is from eu (G2095), good, well, and aggéllō (n.f.), to proclaim, tell. To evangelize, proclaim the good news, preach the gospel. It was at the time that the first Christians were "scattered abroad, and went about preaching the Word" after the martyrdom of Stephen (he being one of the seven), that the verb euaggelízō (G2097), to publish the good tidings or good news, was used by Luke in Act_8:4, Act_8:12, Act_8:25, Act_8:35, Act_8:40. Used in the act. voice meaning to declare, proclaim (Rev_10:7; Rev_14:6); in the pass. voice, euaggelízomai, of matters to be proclaimed as glad tidings (Luk_16:16; Gal_1:11; 1Pe_1:25); of persons to whom the proclamation is made (Mat_11:5; Luk_7:22; Heb_4:2, Heb_4:6; 1Pe_4:6); in the mid. voice especially of the message of salvation with a personal obj., either of the person preached (Act_5:42; Act_11:20; Gal_1:16), or with a prep., of persons evangelized (Act_8:12; Act_13:32; Eph_3:8). Not found in Gospel of Mark, or the epistles and Gospel of John, only once in the Gospel of Matthew, and twice in the Book of the Revelation. Related to euaggélion (G2098), a good message. Also from euággelos (n.f.): euaggélion (G2098), good news.

Philip preached to unbelievers
Act 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ.
Act 8:6 And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip when they heard him and saw the signs that he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits came out of many who were possessed, crying with a loud voice, and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed.
Act 8:8 So there was much joy in that city.

and Peter
Act 8:25 Now when they had testified and spoken the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel to many villages of the Samaritan

And Paul
Act 9:27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles and declared to them how on the road he had seen the Lord, who spoke to him, and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus.
Act 9:28 So he went in and out among them at Jerusalem, preaching boldly in the name of the Lord.
Act 9:29 And he spoke and disputed against the Hellenists. But they were seeking to kill him.

The preached AND Testified
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
To "testify" isn't to tell someone how to be saved. It's to bear witnessed to what you've experience or know like the Resurrection.

Paul, notice they BECAME believers
ct 11:20 But there were some of them, men of Cyprus and Cyrene, who on coming to Antioch spoke to the Hellenists also, preaching the Lord Jesus.
Act 11:21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number who believed turned to the Lord.

Act 14:1 Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed.
Act 14:2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.
Act 14:3 So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
Act 14:4 But the people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews and some with the apostles.
Act 14:5 When an attempt was made by both Gentiles and Jews, with their rulers, to mistreat them and to stone them,
Act 14:6 they learned of it and fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the surrounding country,
Act 14:7 and there they continued to preach the gospel.

Again to unbelievers
Act 17:18 Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, "What does this babbler wish to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities"--because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection

Preaching is as much about someone proclaiming something to those who are unbelievers as it is to those who already believe. What is being proclaimed though is not the same

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RJR

Everyone witnesses, we receive power to witness via the Holy Ghost, but not everyone is a sent preacher.s.

And I would argue that we are ALL enabled to preach or teach salvation to the lost not just some guy standing behind a pulpit.

[RJR]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RJR

How silly, don't you know Romans through Revelations was written to those who were called to be saints? If I made all the blunders you have made in the last several posts I think I would be quite and learn instead of offering information rife with error.

Notice how much effort was put into those who were already disciples, and was not this the purpose of ordaining Elders IN ALL THE CHURCHES?

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Act 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Being written TO the Saints does not prevent Paul from mentioning HOW they are saved.

Also Roman's may not have been entirely to those already saved but those who are not.

Rom 1:14 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish.
Rom 1:15 So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."

In fact a lot of what Paul says seems directed at UNBELIEVERS and not just believers. Paul's letters were read in meetings and often unbelievers came into their midst.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by RJR

Context, Context, Context. Who was he instructing in Matt 28:19, hint look at Mat 28:16, and not one woman among those eleven he chose. He was instructing the ministry to teach and baptize. Not one woman in approx. 90 years of Bible history baptized. Guess your understanding must be more of a modern invention.

It would have saved you a lot of time to just say that you don't know who that verse is speaking to.