You Can Fake It All

[ILG]

When someone is sharing of their own background, I do not see it as "picking on" that group. If ILG had come from a Baptist type church and posted similar, would the same ones say she is railing against or picking on the Baptists? She also clearly noted in the OP, "The same thing is true in all churches..."

Thanks, Reader, I completely agree.

Instead of dismissing the post without giving it much thought, could you consider that she may have a point? Especially this: "Since this formula is so traditional and passed down from generation to generation to "be saved" there are likely a great many in the UPC and other apostolic churches that don't have a clue what true salvation is, they are just following the formula."

That's what I ask myself every time I post something like this. I didn't come out railing and ranting like some here are saying. But it seems like they *wish* I was. Because sometimes, the truth hurts and people want to yell and point fingers and blame and get the focus off themselves and their own organization. It just makes it easier for them. But considering that I may have a point but just hurt too much. But if they would stop and think about it and consider and learn and grow, much good could be accomplished.

Consider something I saw in the post, if you could set aside the thought that she is railing on the UPC. Is it not possible that there are people there who follow all the rules, so to speak, but who really don't have that real knowledge of Jesus or a lasting relationship with him?

This is what I have been trying to say. And it is obviously true. Otherwise there would not be sin in the camp from time to time. Usually then people start saying how all organizations have this. Well, of course they do. That is also part of my point. The difference? The UPC can't seem to admit it. A very good example is the fact that I wrote this thread and people come out swinging. So, we have to ask why the strong, strong defending? Why can't there just be a discussion and an admittance?

Could some in the church press these rules so much to the point where ones coming in might just see the necessity of the rules and focus on them and neglect what the rules are supposed to be all about? Have some focused too much on a "formula" to give security? Isn't this what the Pharisees did to their converts? They were so into "getting it right" that when Jesus, their Messiah came, they not know or recognize him. In addition, they also had people looking to them and thinking they were a great example and saved......when they were not. (I am not mentioning the Pharisees to insinuate that the UPC is the equivalent of them, but using their example to show a point that I believe the OP was sharing. The Pharisees has a "formula" and were adamant about it, yet so many of them missed knowing God.)

Exactly, and my point is that the whole UPC formula can be faked.

If this is so, that in essence there are people "going through the motions" in the churches but not truly having that knowledge or personal relationship with Jesus, what can be done about it? What changes could be made in the churches to stop, or at least greatly hinder, such from happening?

Thank you for your points. I think one of the biggest things that can be done to help this is to start to admit that indeed the whole thing can be faked and stop fighting it every time someone mentions that it is true. Only when the admitting is done can changes be made.