Oneness Questions - Page 12

Aquila · #**111** 04-29-2014, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light

Your quote is not correct. GREAT IS THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS

Read the whole chapter. You are taking verse 16 out of context.

A more dynamic translation renders it best:

1 Timothy 3:16a (NLT)
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith:...

What is the great mystery of Christianity?

Timothy 3:16b (KJV)
...God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Praxeas · #**112** 04-29-2014, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Yes

So his right pinky is not only on Mars, it's in you and in us all and in Chicago???

Praxeas · #**113** 04-29-2014, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Good point. Jesus wasn't just a man with God inside. He was a man in whom God was manifest within His very being. A man who was literally "one" with the Father from conception. This "Oneness" allows each to share in the others very being and nature. Therefore, in the man Jesus Christ one can say that God became a man; and that the man Jesus Christ was also... God.

I don't believe that this "Oneness" began at Christ's baptism either. Some do, I don't. I believe that this oneness began at Christ's very conception.

that still sounds Unitarian (two persons. One is God and the other is a man in WHOM God was manifest in)

Praxeas · #**114** 04-29-2014, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Jesus became the Father(The express image of the Father)

So you have two persons who merge into One? Jesus wasn't the Father but became the Father?

Praxeas · #**115** 04-29-2014, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let's stop and consider something. Let's imagine that we do have two persons... the Divine Person of the Father and the human person of Jesus, the Son of God. So far, we hear the phrase "two persons" and we become troubled. However, let's stop and look closely at the "human person" of Jesus. That human person which the Bible calls, "the man Christ Jesus", the one who prays to the Father; He isn't just "another person" in the way that you and I are. The Scriptures also state that this man, Jesus Christ, is the express image of God's own person. If this is so, the "human person" of Jesus reflects the very image and likeness of the Father's own person... in a very real human being. With this in mind... how many persons are revealed in these two persons?

Only one.

So, if we look at it one way we can say that we see two persons; the Father and the Son of God. If we look at it in another way we can say that the very person of God is perfectly revealed in these two persons. We see God in His Godhead... and we see God perfectly manifested in the man Jesus Christ.

So... in my mind... there can indeed be two persons. And they clearly reflect the very "person" (singular) of God.

It's not troubling. It's just that two persons, one is God and the other is not, is Unitarianism not Oneness.

Sean · #**116** 04-29-2014, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So you have two persons who merge into One? Jesus wasn't the Father but became the Father?

God was in Jesus and still is...There is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus> The body of Jesus is the temple of God.

If not, in your words, please explain God IN Christ for us now in the "present tense".(or maybe what you think is going on in heaven as far as the Godhead appears to be right now)... (almost)Everyone I know just "slings" scriptures around these days but offer no explanation in detail. I would like to hear someone elses "version" of Oneness doctrine sometime. It could have made it a lot easier to give everyone my 20 oneness scriptures too, but I like to take it a step further and try to explain what I see.

I would like to see somebody "take charge" and present the case for oneness. Its easy to observe and ask micro-questions.

I personally know very few of my brethren that can "explain" our position well. They just rollout scriptures and hope you get it..

By the way, I am just a roofer of 31 years and have NEVER been to Bible school. (Anyone here can out do me).

Praxeas · #**117** 04-29-2014, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

God was in Jesus

Yes..you said that already. So you have two persons. God and the man God was inside of "Jesus" and then Jesus became God (the Father, so they merged into one Person)

Sean · #**118** 04-29-2014, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes..you said that already. So you have two persons. God and the man God was inside of "Jesus" and then Jesus became God (the Father, so they merged into one Person)

As long as we dont have 2 Gods Im ok with however you see it. I said a long time ago, I dont know the "ingredients" of How an almighty God works and lives in Christ. I just know for certain he did NOT preexist as a SON-GOD before He was born. And I may have to just resort to answering with nothing but "God in Christ" scriptures like most folks do.

My question is for anyone here today.

Can anyone in our movement tell us "exactly" how the Godhead is explained?. In general, we think we have the answers, but we are trying our best to figure it out ourselves. I could probably stump most of my brothers with trinity questions they cant answer. Like who is God talking to in Gen. 1:26,,,,,,I bet I will get some varying answers on that. There is NO "universal" agreement on Oneness teaching. You and I just have to figure it out the best we can. (unless Daniel Seagraves or David Bernard is your pastor)

Praxeas · #**119** 04-29-2014, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

As long as we dont have 2 Gods Im ok with however you see it. I said a long time ago, I dont know the "ingredients" of How an almighty God works and lives in Christ. I just know for certain he did NOT preexist as a SON-GOD before He was born. And I may have to just resort to answering with nothing but "God in Christ" scriptures like most folks do.

My question is for anyone here today.

Can anyone in our movement tell us "exactly" how the Godhead is explained?. In general, we think we have the answers, but we are trying our best to figure it out ourselves. I could probably stump most of my brothers with trinity questions they cant answer. Like who is God talking to in Gen. 1:26,,,,,,I bet I will get some varying answers on that. There is NO "universal" agreement on Oneness teaching. You and I just have to figure it out the best we can. (unless Daniel Seagraves or David Bernard is your pastor)

How can we say "there isn't universal agreement on Oneness" if Oneness is not defined?

I'd say from a Scholarly standpoint, as codified by men like Segraves, there is.

Id also say what many believe is really Unitarianism (with a twist in your case where he becomes God and merges back into one person)

Sean · #**120** 04-29-2014, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How can we say "there isn't universal agreement on Oneness" if Oneness is not defined?

I'd say from a Scholarly standpoint, as codified by men like Segraves, there is.

Id also say what many believe is really Unitarianism (with a twist in your case where he becomes God and merges back into one person)

Prax, I dont even know what unitarianism is...You guys have a bad habit of labeling each other with some weird philosophies on this Forum (I see it everywhere)...that is nothing but condiscending. My "revelation" comes from debate tapes and wondering how certain scriptures must have a oneness application ,that look like theres a trinity to me.

Luke could probably spank many of you guys in a debate here. (I havent seen anyone stand up to him). I dare somebody here to challenge him to a debate.

Unless you guys are intimidated.......