Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge

[Disciple4life]

Originally Posted by Reader

No but I have read Don Marler's Imprisoned in the brotherhood, also referenced in Fudge's book.

Thoughts? How did you get it? I like to read! Don't judge me!!

[Reader]

I had mixed thoughts. I found myself in agreement and disagreement. If you do a Google search, I think you can find it for sale.

[Sabby]

Lew Davies took over Roam's church in Milwaukie, a suburb of Portland. He was a talent from California and had a mind of his own. He thought that the church altar was Roman Catholic in origin and had it removed. I heard some nasty things said about him. The last time I saw him at a fellowship meeting he was breaking the dress code by wearing a turtle neck instead of a tie. Eventually the building was lost. When Lew left, those that remained in that church chose Leon Brokaw as his successor. Brokaw had been invited in past years to teach the Idaho youth camp at the invitation of Norm Rutzen. He was a grace preacher with a "reputation" to not to be strong on the message, and the fact that he was close to the Rutzens didn't help Brokaw's relationship w/the Oregon District.
I was in a meeting where my pastor at the time preached against this man and his daughter, who was a professional model. It was worse than toxic.

[Sabby]

Aegsm76,
I don't know what you are implying about what happened to Jim Roam's church, but I suspect you were or are a minister in the Oregon District. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we knew each other.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Disciple4life

I would still like to hear any bodies recollections on how things happened at CBC. And also their opinions.

Class of '80. Class president, MSA President jr and sr years, Chapel Committee Chairman. Graduated w/dual major in Ministry/Christian Education.

Tom O'Daniel returned from Kenya and joined CBC as an insructor at HQ's behest (his words) to "straighten things out".
Several students were military veterans from Germany and alums of the Cobb/Nigh school of eschatalogy. This presented a sticky situation for John Klemin (the school president) in how to best deal with the local Portland area pastors - Winifred Toole, Bill Davies (Toole's son-in-law), Barry King, Clyde Barlow, Phil and Paul Dugas, etc.

[Monterrey]

Having grown up close to these districts and having extensive fellowship with men in these districts as I grew older, this information is extremely interesting to me. It explains the attitude that still exists today among the Idaho, Washington and Oregon men, both in and out of the UPCI.

I always wondered why the animosity existed in that part of the country. In my ignorance I thought at the time that they all believed the common primary message put out by the Org.

The interesting thing is that the contention remains to this day in that region. I just had not put it together until now as to why.

Last year I was contacted by a former acquaintance of mine from that area and asked if we could meet so he could "examine" what I believe. (I am not a dispensationalist).

When we sat down and began to talk he referenced some of what is being discussed here... I had no idea what he was speaking of.

Now the light is clicking on.

Interesting.

[Monterrey]

This also explains more as to why the contentious Apostolic was printed and sent out for so many years by Dugas.

[aegsm76]

My reason for questioning most things put out by Fudge have to do with his view of the UPC. From my understanding of his theological perspective, he believes that the basic doctrine held by the UPC is heretical and not "Christian". Thus, this colors anything that he might believe, write and publish. A perfect example of this is the title of CWOC, which was a direct slam of the UPC. I am always curious to know what the personal beliefs are of writers as it tends to color their writings.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

My reason for questioning most things put out by Fudge have to do with his view of the UPC. From my understanding of his theological perspective, he believes that the basic doctrine held by the UPC is heretical and not "Christian". Thus, this colors anything that he might believe, write and publish. A perfect example of this is the title of CWOC, which was a direct slam of the UPC. I am always curious to know what the personal beliefs are of writers as it tends to color their writings.

Fudge is like many that grew up in the UPC, having seen how very human the leadership, he continued to study, observe and search for truth. The UPC is no less flawed and filled with human frailty, than the next religious organization, no matter how it is supposed be "Spirit lead".

Our responsibility is to never stop learning and seeking to know Jesus and the true principles of kingdom living. Many in the UPC are on this path and many that were once there are on this path. Some have wrecked their lives, unable to assimilate the paths of the search, both in and out of the UPC.

When men refuse to meet with those that they demonize, using the Scriptures only as the reference for what is true, those men are pushing politics instead of truth. This is what was characteristic of "experts" that in the way they went about removing the "heretics".

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sabby

Class of '80. Class president, MSA President jr and sr years, Chapel Committee Chairman. Graduated w/dual major in Ministry/Christian Education.

Tom O'Daniel returned from Kenya and joined CBC as an insructor at HQ's behest (his words) to "straighten things out".
Several students were military veterans from Germany and alums of the Cobb/Nigh school of eschatalogy. This presented a sticky situation for John Klemin (the school president) in how to best deal with the local Portland area pastors - Winifred Toole, Bill Davies (Toole's son-in-law), Barry King, Clyde Barlow, Phil and Paul Dugas, etc.

I have read Fudge's latest book, your perspective on this history is very interesting and appreciated.

I have no desire to demonize any involved, but because it reflects on my heritage and experience I am very interested. Thank you.