So Mich....

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by ILG

So Mich, you seem to be MIA. Are you out there anywhere?

So, I went to the Lutheran church for the 3rd time. I was invited to stay for coffee and sweets afterwards but was meeting my Mom to visit my Granny in the nursing home, so I didn't stay.

For some reason, I got very upset at church today. It was nothing anybody did.....I guess, since I was there for the third time, I was feeling panicky...and then being invited to stay for coffee made me feel like I was being eyeballed, like they were going to tie me down and force me to be a member and be there all the time. LOL! My feelings are irrational, but I am very commitment shy. I sat there thinking "Is this what you believe?? Do you want to be here??" I cried all the way home. Hard.

So, I just don't know what I am thinking. I feel like someone who was married to a wife abuser, who got her ribs broken and her teeth smashed in....who finally got a divorce....left off men for a few years and am now dating again. (Erase abusive husband and put in abusive church and fill in the blanks.) I'm terrified.

Well, I don't have to make any commitments and I am not being forced to do anything for fear of hell. So, when my nervous system calms down, I'm sure I'll be alright. Just having flashbacks, I guess...

Yeah, I am kinda MIA. My folk are visiting from Wisconsin, so I've not been on the computer, and I spent the week before getting everything ready.

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time! Avery and I took a few weeks off and then went again weekend before last. She was SOOOOOO excited. I think it's funny because about 10 girls/women came up, talked to her, and knew her name. I make polite small talk, but never to the point of exchanging names. So I am "Avery's Mom", LOL

I have to say that everyone is friendly, but not in an overly familiar or pushy kind of way, which is nice because I might want to try other places before deciding on this one.

All-in-all, don't rush yourself, and don't be too hard on yourself. It's a journey, not a destination. If you try to force yourself to "Hey, I'm your average happy church-goer whose perfectly well-adjusted with no triggers or anxiety, yay!" you are only going to get MORE anxious when you realize that it's not really true, LOL

I guess that's my secret, a total lack of expectations. I go to church so that my daughter can have social interaction, so that I can have (limited) fellowship with other believers (I get something out of just being in the same room...regardless of my level of interaction), and as a bonus I get to spend some time mulling over some of the philosophical aspects of my faith (that's sermon time).

I most EMPHATICALLY do not go because God or people expect it from me, for spiritual accountability, or because I need an emotional pick-me-up or release, or because I think I'll go to hell if I don't. I'm also not really looking for a "church family" or a "place to belong". So I guess I don't get anxious about church, because I know that I'm not vulnerable in the way I was 15 years ago. And I believe that I've learned from my experiences, to make better, smarter and more informed decisions. I think you'll get there!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

Yeah, I am kinda MIA. My folk are visiting from Wisconsin, so I've not been on the computer, and I spent the week before getting everything ready.

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time! Avery and I took a few weeks off and then went again weekend before last. She was SOOOOOO excited. I think it's funny because about 10 girls/women came up, talked to her, and knew her name. I make polite small talk, but never to the point of exchanging names. So I am "Avery's Mom", LOL

I have to say that everyone is friendly, but not in an overly familiar or pushy kind of way, which is nice because I might want to try other places before deciding on this one.

All-in-all, don't rush yourself, and don't be too hard on yourself. It's a journey, not a destination. If you try to force yourself to "Hey, I'm your average happy church-goer whose perfectly well-adjusted with no triggers or anxiety, yay!" you are only going to get MORE anxious when you realize that it's not really true, LOL

I guess that's my secret, a total lack of expectations. I go to church so that my daughter can have social interaction, so that I can have (limited) fellowship with other believers (I get something out of just being in the same room...regardless of my level of interaction), and as a bonus I get to spend some time mulling over some of the philosophical aspects of my faith (that's sermon time).

I most EMPHATICALLY do not go because God or people expect it from me, for spiritual accountability, or because I need an emotional pick-me-up or release, or because I think I'll go to hell if I don't. I'm also not really looking for a "church family" or a "place to belong". So I guess I don't get anxious about church, because I know that I'm not vulnerable in the way I was 15 years ago. And I believe that I've learned from my experiences, to make better, smarter and more informed decisions. I think you'll get there!

After reading this, I was thinking, okay, why am I going to church? I am going because I want a social structure where I can be with people who also want to worship God and I want to worship God, not necessarily in that order. But I want to do it without the other people. LOL! No, I suppose that is not true. But we were just literally tormented by some of the people we went to church with for some years. I don't know what you know about my situation, so here is a briefing. One woman sat behind me for a couple years and heckled and criticized my husband enough so I could hear. They broke into the church building and tried to steal it (yes, the whole thing!). Someone smashed out my husband's headlights and taillights on his truck, and drove by beeping their horn at 3 AM every night for weeks. We were sued for something we didn't do and just harassed for years until they finally dropped it with no proof. Without getting into the whole story, we had minimal support from the district and some outright hostility as well, because the previous pastor, who was paying for his motorcycle with church funds before we were there, supported the hecklers/plaintiffs and he and his wife were very high up in the organization and respected. So, can we say baggage? Yes, indeed, I don't see that baggage too much as long as I stay away from church, but once I step in the doors, I have some pretty bad issues. Sometimes I wonder if it is worth it.

I'm happy it is easier for you and that Avery is having a good time. I didn't go last week.

[ILG]

Today, I went to an Assembly of God church. Overall, it was a positive experience. (I hadn't been to church since I cried all the way home from the Lutheran church that day.) The AOG has a similar structure to UPC except it is toned down a bit. No preacher frothing at the mouth or wild speaking in tongues. But the structure of the service was similar and the songs were similar. I enjoy good music and that is one thing I don't like about the Lutheran church. I find the music boring.

The preacher tried to peg me right away as to whether I needed saving or not and I told him I had a looonngg church history. But his questions didn't bother me either. Today, I felt very casual about the whole thing and enjoyed it, even. I easily overlooked any stuff I disagreed with. The question is whether or not I could do that on a long term basis.

I got out some of my old church music today and sang and played some of it. I feel really emotional about it right now. I feel I am coming more to a place of acceptance with what we have been through. This has been ongoing for a number of months. We talk a lot about trusting God but when the rubber meets the road and you get hit by a mack truck then you get to decide what trust really is. Truthfully, I do trust God. I just don't understand all of it.

Anyway, there is my most recent church visit.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by ILG

Today, I went to an Assembly of God church. Overall, it was a positive experience. (I hadn't been to church since I cried all the way home from the Lutheran church that day.) The AOG has a similar structure to UPC except it is toned down a bit. No preacher frothing at the mouth or wild speaking in tongues. But the structure of the service was similar and the songs were similar. I enjoy good music and that is one thing I don't like about the Lutheran church. I find the music boring.

The preacher tried to peg me right away as to whether I needed saving or not and I told him I had a looonngg church history. But his questions didn't bother me either. Today, I felt very casual about the whole thing and enjoyed it, even. I easily overlooked any stuff I disagreed with. The question is whether or not I could do that on a long term basis.

I got out some of my old church music today and sang and played some of it. I feel really emotional about it right now. I feel I am coming more to a place of acceptance with what we have been through. This has been ongoing for a number of months. We talk a lot about trusting God but when the rubber meets the road and you get hit by a mack truck then you get to decide what trust really is. Truthfully, I do trust God. I just don't understand all of it.

Anyway, there is my most recent church visit.

I'm glad this visit went a little better than your last one! I didn't go yesterday because I wasn't feeling very well, but Avery and I went the week before. We almost didn't, Josh had worked overtime, and with our opposite schedules we barely see each other anyway. But when I talked about not going Avery started crying really hard and pleading to go to church...and who can resist that?

I ended up being really glad that I went, as the message was about one area of that particular churches vision, and was one I really needed to hear. I find myself often sitting in church and wondering if they would truly accept me knowing that.....

...I only agree with about 50% of what they teach

...I will never tithe or give any money (My atheist husband's stipulation)

...I don't accept the doctrine of biblical infallibity

...I'm a ___________ (some examples: democrat, liberal, progressive, philosopher, ecumenicalist,(probably made up that word), relativist, and partial universalist, pro-choice, pro-gay rights....yadda yadda yadda)


Anyway, so the pastor was talking about the vision of the church (to reach and minister to those far from God), and in the course of that he said something along the lines of "We have no expectations of you. Nothing you've done in the past, are doing in the present, or might do in the future, will make you not be welcome here." (Don't worry, he added a stipulation of legal things, like restraining orders, or background checks on people who work with the children). But that felt very much like something I needed to hear. I admit it, I cried (the silent kind where big fat tears just keep rolling down your face unchecked).

So, that really felt like a sign or a nudge, because I think we all long to be accepted where we are, because tolerance and love (this does not necessarily always mean agreement or approval, contrary to what conservatives might say about us) are important to me, and because I was thinking of others out there, others like us.

Most people when you say "those far from God" would think of those who've never been properly introduced or entered into relationship. But aren't those who have a warped and tainted view of God, who are afraid to trust, or let Him close, aren't they the ones who are truly far from God?

I agree with you about the music. The music at this church is fast, loud rock music. I often find myself missing the slower more contemplative music from my past.

I think it's good that you took out and listened to your old music. There's something that happens as time passes and you begin to heal. Like with my first marriage. I can recall the bad things about that marriage, but they slowly separated from the strong emotions that they used to have, and without those painful negative emotions, not only do you see things a bit more clearly, but it also becomes possible to pick out good positive memories/associations.

So that once upon a time, I was likely to throw my Bible across the room if I opened it up and looked at it, now I can smile at verses that are associated with good memories. Or I can listen to my old CD's and they bring me comfort (many of them, because I ASSOCIATE them with being comforted)

It's one of the reasons why I'd really like to attend one more apostolic service. I think healing, for me, would be attending that type of service, because able to rejoice in the shared worship of God, enjoy the music, rationally and critically (the analytic meaning, not just being negative) engage in the sermon, to agree in the basics and lovingly disagree where our doctrines diverge.

But then, I've always been an idealist! LOL

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

I ended up being really glad that I went, as the message was about one area of that particular churches vision, and was one I really needed to hear. I find myself often sitting in church and wondering if they would truly accept me knowing that.....

...I only agree with about 50% of what they teach

...I will never tithe or give any money (My atheist husband's stipulation)

...I don't accept the doctrine of biblical infallibity

...I'm a ___________ (some examples: democrat, liberal, progressive, philosopher, ecumenicalist,(probably made up that word), relativist, and partial universalist, pro-choice, pro-gay rights....yadda yadda yadda)

I totally understand that! You know how people swarm you, wanting you to come again? I was thinking "If I came, you do not know what you are in for!" I go to worship God, not to agree with theology.

Anyway, so the pastor was talking about the vision of the church (to reach and minister to those far from God), and in the course of that he said something along the lines of "We have no expectations of you. Nothing you've done in the past, are doing in the present, or might do in the future, will make you not be welcome here." (Don't worry, he added a stipulation of legal things, like restraining orders, or background checks on people who work with the children). But that felt very much like something I needed to hear. I admit it, I cried (the silent kind where big fat tears just keep rolling down your face unchecked).

So, that really felt like a sign or a nudge, because I think we all long to be accepted where we are, because tolerance and love (this does not necessarily always mean agreement or approval, contrary to what conservatives might say about us) are important to me, and because I was thinking of others out there, others like us.

Well, I have to say, I hope what that preacher said is not just words and they they actually deliver. You do deserve that!

Most people when you say "those far from God" would think of those who've never been properly introduced or entered into relationship. But aren't those who have a warped and tainted view of God, who are afraid to trust, or let Him close, aren't they the ones who are truly far from God?

In my opinion, no. I am afraid to trust, yet I do not feel far from God. I do feel far from church though.

I think it's good that you took out and listened to your old music. There's something that happens as time passes and you begin to heal. Like with my first marriage. I can recall the bad things about that marriage, but they slowly separated from the strong emotions that they used to have, and without those painful negative emotions, not only do you see things a bit more clearly, but it also becomes possible to pick out good positive memories/associations.

I completely agree. And I was not listening to music, I was playing on the piano and singing what I used to sing there. It was very personal because it signifies not just music, but the whole identity that I used to be, church person, pastor's wife, music lead etc.

It's one of the reasons why I'd really like to attend one more apostolic service. I think healing, for me, would be attending that type of service, because able to rejoice in the shared worship of God, enjoy the music, rationally and critically (the analytic meaning, not just being negative) engage in the sermon, to agree in the basics and lovingly disagree where our doctrines diverge.

I'll probably get there at some point.

But then, I've always been an idealist! LOL

You and me both!


For me, I would probably have thrown the whole thing out if not for the conversion experience I had.

[Sasha]

As I sat in service yesterday, I thought of you both. I'm sure you both would love it and feel so welcome there.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Sasha

As I sat in service yesterday, I thought of you both. I'm sure you both would love it and feel so welcome there.

Nice of you to think of us.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by ILG

Nice of you to think of us.

I love my friends.

[KeptByTheWord]

There recently was a Church in the Park service in our area. 10 different churches in the area got together to have service together in the local city park. A friend of mine from one of the churches invited me to come, so my daughter and I went. It was actually kind of neat, because I got to see a lot of people there that I knew from the community.

The AOG church in town did the music for the service, and I have to say it was incredibly awesome, and spirit filled. There was a well rounded group of songs, both old and new. By far, the song that got the most raised hands in the air, and you could literally hear the swell of singing all across the park was when they began to sing "What a Friend We Have in Jesus".

They served up a free potluck BBQ lunch afterwards. I guesstimated about 200-300 people were there. Everyone brought lawn chairs or blankets. There were kids who ran around handing out booklets with the words to all the songs that would be sung, which was really nice, as there were a few of the songs I didn't know and it was good to have the words in printed form.

The Baptist minister preached, and I thought he did an excellent job. He spoke on Surviving or Thriving, and explained the difference between just barely making it with your walk with the Lord, or having a thriving experience with the Lord.

It was a really wonderful service, really. I have not visited the AOG church in town, because I've found out that as soon as you show your face in a church building, you recognize people from the community, and then as you see them in the community, they want to know why you haven't been back to church, lol. But, perhaps I'll go and visit, especially since ILG had a good experience last week.

I'll keep you posted

[navygoat1998]

I want you guys(girls) to know that I am enjoying being part of your search for a church home.