Nice that you tone it down, but I need to let folks see that there is PLENTY OF DEBATE regarding the tithing issue. It is a completely biblical made philosophy that has kept those who would rob God out of the kingdom of God and has greatly contributed to the salvation of those who are trying to be saved. That's the bottom line.
I realize that you will perhaps never change, but I want the next generation to see that those who opposed tithing failed miserably to make their case and give the tools to combat this misinterpretation of the word of God.
Umm have you missed the tithing threads on AFF? Tithing has been debunked and destroyed. Y'all lose every argument because yall can't back up your position with scripture unless y'all make weird allegories like Untraditional does.
AFF has a debate section where two people can debate a topic. I challenge you or anyone (preferably a fellow pastor) to a moderated debate on the subject of tithing.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Actually I did post a few times, but I left after seeing that biblical arguments for the tithe were not seriously considered. There is no point in talking to people who refuse to accept the Bible as the final arbiter of truth.
Tithing has been debunked and destroyed.
In your mind only.
Y'all lose every argument because yall can't back up your position with scripture
I have never lost for I did back up my position with plenty of scriptures, your group simply refused to consider biblical arguments. I did not lose, I simply quit debating with a bunch of people who refuse bible text for their beliefs.
unless y'all make weird allegories like Untraditional does.
AFF has a debate section where two people can debate a topic. I challenge you or anyone (preferably a fellow pastor) to a moderated debate on the subject of tithing.
I have already debated your group and I am not going again thru endless arguments with people who refuse to accept biblical texts for their doctrine.
Go on take a vacation and enjoy the money you are not paying in tithes.
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
I have already debated your group and I am not going again thru endless arguments with people who refuse to accept biblical texts for their doctrine.
Go on take a vacation and enjoy the money you are not paying in tithes.
So I ask you to back up your position with a reasoned, scriptural, moderated debate and all you can say is blah blah blah? Typical. You have an indefensible position, perhaps you should have written tithing into the version of the Bible you made that edited Matthew 28:19.
And I will be taking a vacation after Thanksgiving, to Disney. I won some tickets then pitched in some money so I could take a single mom and her two kids who otherwise would probably never get that opportunity to go.
I've been blessed to do things I never imagined. My income has more than quadrupled since I quit tithing and began freewill giving, expanding my giving not just to the church but other ministries and especially to people in need as I feel led.
But none of that matters, its all pragmatic. The only thing that matters is what do the scriptures teach. And you're not really interested or able to defend your doctrinal position.
If anyone else believes the tithe is required of new testament believers I'm open to a reasoned, scriptural, moderated debate.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Brother, that passage is not about FALSE TEACHERS reprobating the church and driving a stumblingblock between the church and community, it is about a mans' "personal convictions". I believe I have been DEFENDING the truth in the same manner Paul or Peter would have....vigorously
Romans 14 is about false teachers? I'm pretty sure its about Christian liberty. But the point I was making is that the people your are damning to hell and cursing with death are Christians and thus while you are within your right to warn them of perceived error, you are usurping Gods place by judging them with death and hell. Its very concerning to me you believe God has spoken this to you.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Romans 14 is about false teachers? I'm pretty sure its about Christian liberty. But the point I was making is that the people your are damning to hell and cursing with death are Christians and thus while you are within your right to warn them of perceived error, you are usurping Gods place by judging them with death and hell. Its very concerning to me you believe God has spoken this to you.
Read it again, its NOT about false teachers bro.
Brother, also, I have seen the wrath of God on backsliders, heretics and sinners that had the word spoken to them before their demise, from so-called, "ordinary" saints. Any one walking in the Spirit is subject to the word of prophecy(giving or receiving), from time to time. Actually, very few prophecies that I have heard or gave were "peaches and cream". Some given to me were encouraging(and came to pass, word for word), but some were "negative" and the Lord expected me to repent or else. I just have enough sense to acknowledge my problems(when revealed by the Holy Ghost) and repent when the word comes my way.
Listen to Paul regarding the "CHRISTIAN, BORN AGAIN" Judaizers that tried to impose false doctrine on the church...
Gal 1:... but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Can that be applied today?
Here Paul calls them "witches"....3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth...
Can this be applied today?
Now Paul wishes they were dead, banished or BOTH....12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
Can this be applied today?
Jason, I believe Paul would have no problem "attacking" the heretics of Christianity the same way today!
Well, Paul is DEAD!....Somebody new must carry the torch of setting the heretics straight from time to time. Are you willing to do it?...Did Paul rely on the Lord to do it, or did he do it himself?
The Lord Jesus will take over AFTER WE do our part and speak in the stead of the Apostles. If we can do no more, then our Lord will get out the belt.
These debates are being watched very carefully by our Lord and HE will judge. If I get "cornered" on a doctrine, and I stick to my same beliefs by my pride, then the Lord will get out the belt. If I still continue to teach it to others, knowing it is heresy, I am DEAD MEAT.
Grace does not cover heresy. Heresy is a LIE. The instruction of the apostle Paul is.... Col 3:9Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Our Lies(false doctrines) to each other MUST be exposed. If WE dont do it, the LORD will do it and that would be disastrous.
We must be cautious of "biblio-idolatry". What brings true depth in spiritual matters is hearing personally from the Spirit of God.
I don't deny God can speak (simply because He is the Living God), but I'm pretty cautious about people claiming God speaks to them, especially on a regular basis, and based on that authority condemn other believers.
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
I don't deny God can speak (simply because He is the Living God), but I'm pretty cautious about people claiming God speaks to them, especially on a regular basis, and based on that authority condemn other believers.
Amen. What I found interesting in my study of Quakerism is how Quakers value not only the notion that God speaks personally to each individual... but how each individual and each body does its best not to impose its convictions on other bodies and individuals. If Apostolics could grasp this concept, it would easy tensions while also honoring God given convictions.
Amen. What I found interesting in my study of Quakerism is how Quakers value not only the notion that God speaks personally to each individual... but how each individual and each body does its best not to impose its convictions on other bodies and individuals. If Apostolics could grasp this concept, it would easy tensions while also honoring God given convictions.
The convictions one may hold must be things not specified by Christ or mentioned by his apostles.
Hybrid Mode
