Has there ALWAYS been a true church?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So... the church then is not a definite local assembly of believers? But rather an iinvisiblembership list of individuals? Often based solely upon whether or not the individual believes in Jesus (however defined)?

Honestly I find that hard to believe. It seems to be counter to the teaching of the Bible. Regardless of what constitutes correct theology vs heresy does not the bible indicate the church is an assembly of God's people? An actual assembly?

A local assembly of believers is an assembly of the church members who live there locally

If the church refers to a visible organization then why not become Catholic?

Jesus said "Upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"

2 things. If "Church" refers to a local assembly, then church should be plural. Churches.

Second "Hell" there is Sheol/Hades referring to where dead people go. So the Church must in that respect refer to the entire body of believers

The word Church can refer to a local assembly, but that is simply because the local assembly is a local assembly of the Church.

It really depends on context and what the word "church" means. Sometimes it refers to the assembly, in which case sometimes the plural can be used, and others it is singular referring to the One body of Christ

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

A local assembly of believers is an assembly of the church members who live there locally

If the church refers to a visible organization then why not become Catholic?

Jesus said "Upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"

2 things. If "Church" refers to a local assembly, then church should be plural. Churches.

Second "Hell" there is Sheol/Hades referring to where dead people go. So the Church must in that respect refer to the entire body of believers

The word Church can refer to a local assembly, but that is simply because the local assembly is a local assembly of the Church.

It really depends on context and what the word "church" means. Sometimes it refers to the assembly, in which case sometimes the plural can be used, and others it is singular referring to the One body of Christ

Is it possible Jesus used church in the abstract? Suppose I said "The automobile is responsible for too much pollution" would anyone think I meant a universal invisible "automobile"?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

See Aquila's answer.

I find it even harder to believe is a definite local assembly of believers, and much more difficult to believe that such an assembly has an unbroken line back to Christ and the apostles.

There has always been a church, but not only one name (catholic, Orthodox, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Baptist, etc). The only "name" that unifies the church is Jesus.

Right....were they all inbred?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is it possible Jesus used church in the abstract? Suppose I said "The automobile is responsible for too much pollution" would anyone think I meant a universal invisible "automobile"?

He used it as a reference to hades and we know that we believers are loosed from hades right?

The word is used that way too in the singular many times...How many local congregations were there in all those cities? Just one?

To THE Church (not your church)
Eph 1:22 And He has put all things under His feet and gave Him to be Head over all things to the church,

The church, THE body
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

Gave Himself for THE Church...just the local assembly in Ephesus?
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,

One church. It not Them
Eph 5:27 that He might present it to Himself as the glorious church, without spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Again The body, The Church
Col 1:18 And He is the Head of the body, the church, who is the Beginning, the First-born from the dead, that He may be pre-eminent in all things.

The Body is the Church..>The Church is His Body
Col 1:24 who now rejoice in my sufferings on your behalf, and I fill up the things lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh, on behalf of His body, which is the church;

There is One body
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling,

This verse seems to refer to one assembly
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are written in Heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Again sometimes the word refer to a local assembly of the great Assembly/body/church of believers and sometimes it refers to the Great Assembly/One body of believers as a whole

[Esaias]

You didn't read the article I linked to, eh?

[Praxeas]

If what I said is not true, please show me

[Michael The Disciple]

When I think of the "true church" it includes having the same truth as the apostles taught.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Tim 3:14-15

The CHURCH is the pillar and ground of THE TRUTH.

That's why the TRUE CHURCH is hard to find.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If an assembly of believers do not believe in foundation apostolic doctrine regarding regeneration and remission of sins then what exactly are they?

Is it a bible doctrine that there would ALWAYS be an assembly somewhere that at least knows the identity of God as well as the correct answer to the question "how does a sinner become a Christian"?

And will God "create" a church in a time and place with NO connection to that proposed existing genuine assembly?

The assembly of believers would have to be those who have been baptized by the Spirit and made to drink of the Spirit. 1Cor12:12-13

[Esaias]

So do most of you folks hold to a Restorationist" view of church history?

Meaning the church lost its way long ago and God has been restoring truth to the church with each revival/reformation? Culminating so far in the oneness pentecostal movement (but not stopping there of course)?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The assembly of believers would have to be those who have been baptized by the Spirit and made to drink of the Spirit. 1Cor12:12-13

This is the Church in general. People joined to Christ be the Spirit baptism. I don't mean what Evangelicals call the spirit baptism which they say everyone gets at belief.

When one receives the Spirit baptism or "gift of the Holy Spirit" God is bearing witness that he accepts them.

When I speak of THE TRUE CHURCH it is people with that experience and teach the same foundation doctrine the Apostles taught.

A Church (body of believers) could in theory have the Spirit but be lacking in truth. Whether they would be accepted in the end.......hmmmm that's why we are to contend for the faith once given to the saints. Jude 3