Apostolic but not Oneness?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brother, read Isaiah 9:6. The Son who is to be given is to be known as both the Mighty God and the Everlasting Father. The apostles believed in one God whom they called Father, who according to Jesus is a Spirit. Those apostles also believed and taught that the man, Jesus Christ, is also somehow the manifestation in flesh of the God whom they believed in. Oneness is a modern term for believing Jesus is both the One and only God and yet also the human manifestation or "incarnation" of that God. Both man... and God.

As Martin Luther once said "in heaven the only God you will ever see is Jesus Christ".

In tthehuman Son of God we perceive the heavenly Father and God of all creation. And He sends his Holy Ghost into our hearts who is none other than Christ dwelling in us.

Trinitarianism and binitarianism and unfortunately even some versions of "oneness" I've heard are just intellectual attempts to explain God in the language of Hellenic philosophy and metaphysics. ie the "wisdom of the world" by which man FAILED TO KNOW GOD.

How do you explain the prayers of Jesus to the Father?

I'm a Oneness believer. I'm curious how other Oneness believers explain Jesus' prayers because it usually reveals the inner workings of the way they view the Father and the Son.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Right. Use biblcal terms ONLY.

How do you explain the prayers of Jesus to the Father?

I'm a Oneness believer. I'm curious how other Oneness believers explain Jesus' prayers because it usually reveals the inner workings of the way they view the Father and the Son.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How do you explain the prayers of Jesus to the Father?

I'm a Oneness believer. I'm curious how other Oneness believers explain Jesus' prayers because it usually reveals the inner workings of the way they view the Father and the Son.

This is how I view it. The Word clearly says that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. Everything Jesus said and did was for our example. Therefore, when He prays, He shows our human need for God.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How do you explain the prayers of Jesus to the Father?

I'm a Oneness believer. I'm curious how other Oneness believers explain Jesus' prayers because it usually reveals the inner workings of the way they view the Father and the Son.

Jesus was completely human, just like us. He had the Holy Ghost(Luke 4:1), just like us. He prayed to the "God within him", just like we do....it's really that easy.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How do you explain the prayers of Jesus to the Father?

I'm a Oneness believer. I'm curious how other Oneness believers explain Jesus' prayers because it usually reveals the inner workings of the way they view the Father and the Son.

It's flesh and humanity relying upon Deity. Otherwise, Jesus was not actually manifest in flesh.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How do you explain the prayers of Jesus to the Father?

I'm a Oneness believer. I'm curious how other Oneness believers explain Jesus' prayers because it usually reveals the inner workings of the way they view the Father and the Son.

Jesus was a man. He was a prophet and a "man of God". So it is unthinkable that he would NOT pray. And to whom does a man of God pray? To the Father of course.

Btw prayer is not a means of communicating information to God. He already knows everything. Rather prayer seems designed for our benefit. It is a means for God to interact with us, a means for us to be conformed to his will, a means to draw us closer to God and keep us close.

Jesus is a human being. God became a man and experienced life AS A HUMAN BEING. That human we call JESUS. God incarnate.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Source for Martin Luther quote?

Honestly I cannot find it online. My memory claims I read it in one of his writings but we just moved and most of my books are still packed away.

Perhaps I have remembered in error but I have for years been impressed that he made the statement in a polemical remark against the Socinians.

Or perhaps I read it as attributed to him and over time conflated the attribution as a direct reading.

Unfortunately google has become nearly useless for searching anything important.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Patrick Harris

I'm a minister, Pentecostal, fully believing everything we need to know about what the church needs to return to can be found in The Acts of the Apostles.
My wife and I have been attending an UPCI church for the past year because I truly believe that is where God has placed us. We both love and support our church and our Pastor 100%.
The difference is that we are not Oneness, I've read Dr. Bernard books and I can no longer say with certainty that I follow the path of being Trinitarian, but have not crossed that bridge to Oneness.
However, today I just listened to Dr. Bernard's message titled "Restoring the Apostolic Church" and there was not one thing in that message I didn't fully support or agree with.
The question is this: Can you be considered Apostolic, in your faith, without being Oneness?

Pentecostal and Apostolic are synonymous: they are the same faith and same doctrine. They focus on the Day of Pentecost, and we must ask ourselves: What Happened on that Day? Well...
On the day of Pentecost, four things happened: (1) about 120 disciples received the Holy Spirit, "...and they began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave utterance..."; (2) about three thousand souls repented through the preaching of the Apostle Peter; and, (3) these were all baptized
"...in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...", receiving the Holy Spirit that was promised to them: "...for the promise is unto you, and to your children...".

So, Beloved, if that is what you have experienced, then you are a pentecostal (or apostolic)...except, if you still doubt that there is any other NAME "...under heaven, given among men, in which we must be saved."

[Aquila]

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God (the Father) How? Oneness. He was one with the Father.

Let's review how Jesus Himself describes His Oneness with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray and speak of His Heavenly Father. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from deep within Him. Something emanating from the very core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation. Something that speaks to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something that raises the dead and heals all manner of sickness. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is far more than a mere man. He is... also God.

However, keep in mind...God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that this very same man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God (the Father) How? Oneness. He was one with the Father.

Let's review how Jesus Himself describes His Oneness with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from deep within Him. Something emanating from the very core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation. Something that speaks to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something that raises the dead and heals all manner of sickness. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is far more than a mere man. He is... also God.

However, keep in mind...God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that this very same man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus...He will judge He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.

John 10:30 __ I and my Father are one. (KJV)
(submitting )

John 10:38 __ But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
(walking in obedience)

John 12:45 __ And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)
(knows not the flesh of Jesus, but the Spirit)

The Father will NOT judge: but the word He has spoken will judge the living and the dead.

Christ has indeed been elevated: if he was not flesh (man), he would not be elevated. As God, he would be exalted! So what awaits the children of God? It is found in Psa. 82:6 __ "I have said, 'You are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High God.' "