Apostolics and Secular Music

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by obriencp

And it's this attitude that divides and conquers the body of christ. Do you realize how much music has changed over the last 2000 years? Styles change and evolve. There were prob people with your same attitude towards baroque music when it was new. When slave type call and repeat songs began to influence gospel i'm sure there were "die-hards" that wanted no part of that either. Maybe some of y'all should find a church that doesn't have any music at all. Strick acapella with no music and be sure its the type of music that the Apostles would have listened to. No western scales or chords allowed. No drums, no piano, no mics... I mean seriously, you have no idea how foolish you sound. What you call "ok" wasn't "ok" to those who came before you.

And to keep assuming all that favor a particular style of music are lost and that Christian "rockers" couldn't cut it in the real world? Some of you are flat out wrong in your outlook and spirit.

I have this attitude for a reason, I came out of the the world with rock music why would I want to go back to it?????? You are blind if you think that christian rock is a wonderful tool of outreach. I've never heard of anyone getting saved at a rock concert.

[BrotherEastman]

read this http://www.av1611.org/crock.html

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I have this attitude for a reason, I came out of the the world with rock music why would I want to go back to it?????? You are blind if you think that christian rock is a wonderful tool of outreach. I've never heard of anyone getting saved at a rock concert.

In all sincerity, we praise God you were saved from the world. That's a great testimony to be able to share. It's prob a good thing that you choose to abstain from what the world, and some churches, offer musically as it reminds you of the past.

Christian rock is one of the tools of outreach, not necessarily the best tool. Whether or not it's "wonderful" is subjective. I cannot offer proof of anyone being saved at a Christian Rock concert, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Originally Posted by obriencp

Do you realize how much music has changed over the last 2000 years? Styles change and evolve. There were prob people with your same attitude towards baroque music when it was new. When slave type call and repeat songs began to influence gospel i'm sure there were "die-hards" that wanted no part of that either. Maybe some of y'all should find a church that doesn't have any music at all. Strick acapella with no music and be sure its the type of music that the Apostles would have listened to. No western scales or chords allowed. No drums, no piano, no mics...

Do you care to address how other forms of music have evolved and how there was, undoubtedly, resistance from the religious cons of the time? I know it would be difficult to do discuss this as there probably isn't a historical account. However, this doesn't detract from my argument that there is change and not all change is bad. If you listen to classical music, some is sacred some is secular, but it all sounds like classical music. If that was the popular music of the time, what separated it? The subject matter or lyrics made the music fall into one category or the other. The same is true today. There are similar instruments, beats, chord progressions, electronic aids, etc in both sacred and secular music. The subject and lyrics is what separates them into the two categories. The music we hold as pure and holy today, has evolved from things viewed as worldly and "evil" in times past.

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

read this http://www.av1611.org/crock.html

I did peruse this page and it's very informational. People are people and even saved folks make mistakes. I doubt most will take the time to research all the artists they like and see where they stand doctrinally and examine every facet of their life for sin. Do we stop singing "happy birthday" because the person who wrote it might have been a sinner?

If you want to reject some genres of music because of personal conviction, I understand. But if you're going to make blanket statements about christian rock and it helping young people to be lost, then maybe you should stop listening to anything written/performed by people that aren't OPs or have ever sinned. This will eliminate everything ever performed unless you have original transcripts from the heavenly songs John heard during his revelations.

[Wonder]

Ya know, I don't often post on here. Also, I am not a good debater at all and have many things to learn myself. And if this post is scattered I apologize.

However, I wanted to say that I do not agree with secular music in church. I do not agree with christian rock, rap or other such. How does come out from among them and be ye separate fit here. If we use this type of music, how are we being separate from the world. There is a spirit it seems that comes with this genre of music, that you cannot pin down but can feel all the same. Some of that music is more like going into a trance. This type of music seems to let you feel casual about God and church in general. If you notice in those clips posted everyone is casual in dress. It seems to me to be a rock concert , not church. This music does not enhance my walk with God.

This probably brings another issue about casual dress, but I believe that we should give God our best in everything, that includes dress. When my spouse and I go out , we try to look our best for each other. I believe the same holds for specifically meeting with God.

In church, usually the order is fervent prayer time before the service, followed by singing and worship, then preaching of the word. Each step leads to the next , the singing and worship in my opinion is to give God praise and prepare our hearts. If we are truly giving our all in worship, it then gets our heart ready to receive the word. When the word comes forth sometimes it is exhort , but sometimes it is reprove and rebuke. When we worship God right then we are not in a carnal mind and the word can be more effective. The preaching of the word needs to be spiritually discerned.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The worship, music and preaching should have a clear note and a certain sound.

1Co_14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

If we have a problem distinguishing the church music from the worldly music then what good is it. If the music does not instill a love, praise and reverence for God then it is no good. (And I don't mean sappy or trancelike). In my opinion music is one of satan's greatest tools to utilize. Just because it says Jesus in the song does not mean it is good.

I don't believe we need to conform to the world to reach young people.

Rom_12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Why in the world would we try to imitate what we were delivered from?

Give me the old paths wherein is the good way !

Just to walk with him, means everything to me
And just to know he's there and his hand is leading me
Tho , this world may pass me by and go their way
Let it be
For just to walk with him means everything to me.

[Michael The Disciple]

Once again a thread about Christian music and secular music has turned into Christian music vs Christian music. I think most must not know what "secular" music is.

So as far as Christian Rock its something that I like. Its not just about using it to get kids in Church. Many of the most edifying experiences I have have been songs I heard that honored Christ sometimes just when I needed it the most.

As far as the link about so called Christian Rock, well yea that exposes error and even sin among some who play it. But of those he scours is maybe far less than one percent of those who have done Christian rock.

I myself dropped out of Christian rock around 1993. I felt there was a great deterioration in it. Since then I may have bought no more than three or four albums of it.

So its very little time I spend in it. But to me a lot of music has went down since that time. The true Charismatic music which was the greatest of modern times vanished by the mid 90's.

The Contemporary music played on K LOVE is neither Christian rock or Charismatic music. In my walk the hymnal type music was mainly good for putting one to sleep or draining the zeal out of a person. With EXCEPTIONS of course.

The kind of music played in Pentecostal Churches when I first started going was perhaps a bit better than the hymns but when I found Christian rock and Charismatic music I never looked back the difference was so great.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by obriencp

In all sincerity, we praise God you were saved from the world. That's a great testimony to be able to share. It's prob a good thing that you choose to abstain from what the world, and some churches, offer musically as it reminds you of the past.

Christian rock is one of the tools of outreach, not necessarily the best tool. Whether or not it's "wonderful" is subjective. I cannot offer proof of anyone being saved at a Christian Rock concert, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.



Do you care to address how other forms of music have evolved and how there was, undoubtedly, resistance from the religious cons of the time? I know it would be difficult to do discuss this as there probably isn't a historical account. However, this doesn't detract from my argument that there is change and not all change is bad. If you listen to classical music, some is sacred some is secular, but it all sounds like classical music. If that was the popular music of the time, what separated it? The subject matter or lyrics made the music fall into one category or the other. The same is true today. There are similar instruments, beats, chord progressions, electronic aids, etc in both sacred and secular music. The subject and lyrics is what separates them into the two categories. The music we hold as pure and holy today, has evolved from things viewed as worldly and "evil" in times past.



I did peruse this page and it's very informational. People are people and even saved folks make mistakes. I doubt most will take the time to research all the artists they like and see where they stand doctrinally and examine every facet of their life for sin. Do we stop singing "happy birthday" because the person who wrote it might have been a sinner?

If you want to reject some genres of music because of personal conviction, I understand. But if you're going to make blanket statements about christian rock and it helping young people to be lost, then maybe you should stop listening to anything written/performed by people that aren't OPs or have ever sinned. This will eliminate everything ever performed unless you have original transcripts from the heavenly songs John heard during his revelations.

yeah, PERUSE the link, I wouldn't actually want you to learn anything.

[Michael The Disciple]

Wonder

If the music does not instill a love, praise and reverence for God then it is no good.

Exactly! And thats why I prefer Older Charismatic, Messianic, and Christian rock because it has done just that.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Michael The [B

Disciple[/B];1339453]Exactly! And thats why I prefer Older Charismatic, Messianic, and Christian rock because it has done just that.

In your clouded judgement maybe. But Christian Rock never glorifies God by using worldly music background.

[Wonder]

Skip ahead past the intro to 1:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjbbw...ature=youtu.be

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

yeah, PERUSE the link, I wouldn't actually want you to learn anything.

Hi Bro Eastman,

I read much of the very long link. It has some good points. And yet again it distorts much. Apparently you have very little experience with other Christian music beside what you listen to which so far you have not revealed.

Remember you said that we should not listen to false disciples period?

Well I followed the link to their statement of faith.

Here is one point of it.

We believe God is a trinity, which consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Trinitarianism

Heres another.

We believe eternal life is the free gift of God to "whosoever will" through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ — PLUS NOTHING. Ephesians 2:8,9

Once saved a free ticket to Heaven REGARDLESS.

So it looks as if you are learning from false disciples!