Apostolics and Secular Music

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by n david

not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but most of our beloved hymns were former bar songs with rewritten lyrics.

God used an a s s to accomplish his purpose; who are we to claim he can't use country gospel, rock, or pop to do the same?

prove it.

[Miss Scarlett]

Just heard a wonderful message last night hitting on Gospel Rock music. Why draw the youth with Gospel Rock? Why don't we invite them to a special service with a young Pastor who ministers to the youth, and see how many come to hear the word of God.

Now bring a Rock Concert into the church and state that they can come as they are, and they will be on their feet rocking a grooving the house down. Just look at some of the video's that have been posted.

[n david]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

prove it.

About my first claim:

Francis (Fanny) Crosby was one of the most prolific hymn writers ever, having penned the lyrics to something like 9,000 hymns, including many that are still favorites today including "Blessed Assurance", "Pass Me Not Oh Gentle Savior", and "Safe in the Arms of Jesus." One biography of Fanny Crosby (ISBN 1-55748-731-6) adds this tidbit:

"By the early 1870s, she was well on her way to becoming the queen of hymn writers. Fanny often matched her poems to familiar tunes. An example is "We Thank Thee, Our Father," written to the melody of the famous "Adeste Fidelis." She set poems to Scottish and Welsh airs and used tunes by Stephen Foster."

Furthermore, the founder of another very influential evangelical denomination used parodies, too. William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, an extremely evangelical organization that did much to help the poor and the drunks in the streets, used the music of popular tunes for hymns. In the biography, "William and Catherine Booth: Founders of the Salvation Army," by Helen K. Hosier, it states the following:

"Satan would have to be battled within his own strongholds, and any means was justifiable, William decided, if it would attract sinners to listen to the message of salvation ... Thus it was that as the work grew, the music and street parades attracted increasing crowds of people who scorned the regular churches. 'Why should the devil have all the best tunes?' William replied when chided for appropriating music of popular tunes for his hymns ... "

"The saying that 'the devil has no right to all the good tunes' has been attributed to both William Booth and Charles Spurgeon. But it was George Scott Railton, who was to become William's lieutenant general in 1873 and was well-known as an author and songwriter, who concluded an article 'About Singing' (1874) with this impassioned plea: 'Oh, let us rescue this precious instrument from the clutches of the devil, and make it, as it may be made, a bright and lively power for good!'"

You really think God is somehow bound by stupid genres of music? That He cannot use a certain tune just because the guitar is too loud?

Not my God. He can use whatever or whomever, whenever or wherever He wants.

[houston]

Bar form, not bar tunes. Haha

[n david]

Originally Posted by houston

Bar form, not bar tunes. Haha

That was Wesley, and yes, popular mistake. Fanny Crosby and others have used popular songs as mentioned below.

[BrotherEastman]

BIBLE GUIDELINES FOR CHRISTIAN MUSIC

CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST — NOT MAN

The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my SONG will I PRAISE him. Psalm 28:7

CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS FOR THE LORD — NOT FOR THE WORLD

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts TO THE LORD. Colossians 3:16

CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS A NEW SONG — NOT AN OLD SONG

I will sing a NEW SONG unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee. Psalm 144:9

CHRISTIAN MUSIC'S MESSAGE SHOULD BE CLEAR — NOT VAGUE OR DECEPTIVE

I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the UNDERSTANDING also. 1 Cor. 14:15

CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD EMPHASIS THE MESSAGE — NOT THE MUSIC — NOR THE MUSICIAN

Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious. Psalm 66:2

CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS IN THE LOCAL CHURCH — NOT CONCERT HALLS, NIGHT CLUBS.

Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the CHURCH will I sing praise unto thee. Hebrew 2:12

CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD FEED THE SPIRIT — NOT THE FLESH

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and SPIRITUAL songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Colossians 3:16

CHRISTIAN MUSICIANS SHOULD BE DEDICATED TO THE LORD — NOT WORLDLY

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-21

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by obriencp

In all sincerity, we praise God you were saved from the world. That's a great testimony to be able to share. It's prob a good thing that you choose to abstain from what the world, and some churches, offer musically as it reminds you of the past.

I will say this is Christian Rock reminds you of what you did in the past. The problem is not with the music, it is with you. Examine yourself.

[Esphes45]

Originally Posted by AR Pastor

How in the world can you all condemn a different expression of praise? Wow. Folks God made us all different. We don't all like the same type of ice cream.

So if I put the song Precious Lord to a rock beat, it is now "of the world"?

I am glad I do not go to a church that feels that way.

The bible says "Let everything that has breath Praise ye the Lord".

I guess Christian Rock artists can't do that.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by n david

About my first claim:



You really think God is somehow bound by stupid genres of music? That He cannot use a certain tune just because the guitar is too loud?

Not my God. He can use whatever or whomever, whenever or wherever He wants.

Howard Doane was an industrialist who became Crosby’s principal collaborator in writing gospel music,[220] composing melodies for an estimated 1,500 Crosby's lyrics.[219] Doane and Crosby collaborated through Biglow and Main, and also privately through Doane's Northern Baptist endeavours.[221] Eventually Crosby entrusted to Doane the business aspects of her compositions.[222]
courtesy of wikipedia


In early 1868 Crosby met millionaire Methodist Phoebe Palmer Knapp,[223] who was married to Joseph Fairchild Knapp, co-founder of the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company.[224] The Knapps published hymnals initially for use in the Sunday School of the St. John's Methodist Episcopal Church in Brooklyn, which was superintended by Joseph F. Knapp for 22 years,[225] while Phoebe Knapp took responsibility for 200 children in the infants' department.[226] They first collaborated on Notes of Joy,[227] the first hymnal edited by Knapp,[228] who also contributed 94 of the 172 tunes, and published by her brother Walter C. Palmer, Jr. in 1869.[229] Of the 21 hymns Crosby contributed to Notes of Joy, including eight as "The Children's Friend",[230] Knapp provided the music for fourteen of them. Their best-known collaboration was "Blessed Assurance", for which Crosby wrote words in the Knapps' music room for a tune written by Knapp,[231] while Crosby was staying at the Knapp Mansion in 1873.[4]

From 1871 to 1908, Crosby worked with Ira Sankey, who helped make her "a household name to Protestants around the world".[232] While Sankey was "the premier promoter" of gospel songs, "Crosby ranked first as their provider".[191] The evangelistic team of Sankey and Dwight L. Moody brought many of Crosby's hymns to the attention of Christians throughout the United States and Britain.[39] Crosby was close friends with Sankey and his wife, Frances, and often stayed with them at their home in Northfield, Massachusetts from 1886 for the annual summer Christian Workers' Conferences,[202] and later in their Brooklyn.[99] After Sankey's eyesight was destroyed by glaucoma in March 1903,[233] their friendship deepened and they often continued to compose hymns together at Sankey's harmonium in his home.[234]

You are right, you only made a CLAIM.

courtesy of wikipedia

[n david]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

BIBLE GUIDELINES FOR CHRISTIAN MUSIC

CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST — NOT MAN

The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my SONG will I PRAISE him. Psalm 28:7

CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS FOR THE LORD — NOT FOR THE WORLD

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts TO THE LORD. Colossians 3:16

No problem here. "Christian" music of all genres typically both praise God and are for the Lord, not the "world."

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS A NEW SONG — NOT AN OLD SONG

I will sing a NEW SONG unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee. Psalm 144:9

Soooo, we can't sing old songs? Every song should be something written new on the spot? No more Amazing Grace? No more At the Cross? I disagree with "Brother Billy."

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

CHRISTIAN MUSIC'S MESSAGE SHOULD BE CLEAR — NOT VAGUE OR DECEPTIVE

I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the UNDERSTANDING also. 1 Cor. 14:15

Again, typical of most Christian genres.

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD EMPHASIS THE MESSAGE — NOT THE MUSIC — NOR THE MUSICIAN

Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious. Psalm 66:2

A bit redundant, but yes, most genre's of Christian music meet this point.

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS IN THE LOCAL CHURCH — NOT CONCERT HALLS, NIGHT CLUBS.

Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the CHURCH will I sing praise unto thee. Hebrew 2:12

Because "Church" means a building here, right? The author, "Brother Billy," should read what the word "church" means. It's people, not a building. And no Christian music in concert halls? What about civic centers, convention centers, hotel BALLROOMS, or sports arenas?

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD FEED THE SPIRIT — NOT THE FLESH

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and SPIRITUAL songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Colossians 3:16

Most genres of Christian music meet this.

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

CHRISTIAN MUSICIANS SHOULD BE DEDICATED TO THE LORD — NOT WORLDLY

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-21

A bit of a twist of scripture, since these verses aren't specifically about musicians, but about Christians in general.

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