Mark of the beast idea

[Aquila]

No comments?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Also, the Bible also describes some of the lands the Beast will lead (Dan 11:42, Ezek 38):

o Egypt, which he will attack and subdue (Dan 11:42).
o Meschek and Tubal (most likely parts of Turkey, parts of Southern Russia, parts of Iran),
o Magog (a region convering parts of either Syria and/or former Soviet Republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Turkey, Iran, Dagestan),
o Persia (Modern Iran)
o Cush (African Cush covers parts of Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia. Asian Cush covers Arabia through Euphrates),
o Put (Libya),
o Gomer (Cappadocia, Turkey),
o Togarmah (southeastern part of Turkey near Syria)
o Babylon (Modern Iraq. The Euphrates River in Iraq is also mentioned together with the two Beasts in Rev 16:12-13),

Basically, this is the region spanning N. Africa, Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asian Islamic Republics (the various -stans). All are MUSLIM dominated nations. Al-Mahdi and Isa (Muslim version of Jesus) are supposed to usher an era of peace through Islam. However, after the Jews betray the covenant, those who refuse to accept Islam will perish (Isa will "kill the swine, break the Cross, and abolish the Jizya tax") ... so Isa will accept nothing except Islam from the Christians. This means those who refuse to follow al-Mahdi and Isa will be faced with death. The hadiths say that the al-Mahdi will enter into the al-Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount and re-establish the Caliphate. Muslims believe that Jerusalem will be the center and headquarters of the future Islamic Caliphate (ISIL/ISIS is desperately trying to form this Caliphate as we speak). For example, the head of the northern faction of the Islamic Movement Sheikh Raed Salah addressed an audience of 50,000 in September 2006 that "…soon Jerusalem will be the capital of the new Muslim caliphate, and the caliph's seat will be there." (Ynet News article) Imam Ahmad, Al-Hakim and Abu Dawud quoted 'Abdullah Ibn Zughb Al- Ibadi who heard from 'Abdullah Ibn Hawwala Al- Azdi that: "The Prophet put his hand on my head, and then said: 'Ibn Hawwala, if you see that the Caliphate has taken its abode in the holy land, then the earthquake, the tribulations and great events are at hand, and the Last Hour on that day will be closer to people than my hand is to your head." (Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Musnad. also Abu Dawud). Ibn Sa'd quoted 'Abd Al-Rahman Ibn Abi 'Umayra al-Mazni, "There will be an oath of allegiance according to guidance in Jerusalem." (ibn Hanbal, Musnad)

Bro. Aquila, do these nations above represent the armies of the Antichrist, or just a series of nations going to war, setting up the Antichrist as "savior" of Israel?

This is interesting, but we know that the Antichrist has ties to the region of Rome. That doesnt fit the Muslim idea here,,,,You may or may not be right, but it is an interesting concept to talk about.

Your comments....

[Sean]

Trying to figure out who the Antichrist is, is a tough thing. There have been "types" of antichrist for thousands of years dating all the way back to Nimrod. The "spirit" of a "world ruler" is going around, trying to make antichrists always, which keep getting destroyed.

We may have to wait and see on the real Antichrist.(of course the church will be removed before he takes power)

[Sean]

Oh Oh, another debate started...LOL

[mfblume]

The key to understanding anything in Revelation is to see a pattern in the Old Testament that is undeniably similar, and to determine what the typology between it and New testament teachings are, such as the Passover lamb being the type of Jesus when we see the passover lamb in Revelation 5:6.

First, we must recognize there is such a perfect pattern between the name of God on the foreheads of the 144,000 in Rev 14:1 and the placement of God's Law on the forehead and hand in Deut 6. The name of God on the forehead in Rev 14:1 corresponds to the Law of God on the forehead in the Exodus. And just as the people of God backslid just when God was ready to give them the Law, and worshiped the image of the beast in the form of the golden calf, we see satan's responding similarly to the name of God on the forehead by issuing his own mark for the forehead and hand.

In order to determine the nature of the mark of the beast, therefore, we have to learn the nature of the worship of the beast in the form of the golden calf and compare it to the reception of God's law from the hand of Moses. That will help us contrast the name of God in the forehead from the mark of the beast in the forehead in Rev 13-14.

The bible interprets itself in this fashion. Unless we utilize THIS KEY to reading Revelation, we will be a million miles off target.

[mfblume]

Jonathan Welton notes this in his book RAPTURELESS, free to read online.

http://raptureless.com/

Regarding the "mark of the beast," it is important to note that in the ancient cultures of Rome, the public market was the main source of trade and retail. For people to enter the public market, they had to pass through the main gate. It was required of all who entered the main gate to pay homage to the idol of the Emperor. Once homage was paid, ashes were placed on the hand or on the forehead of the individual, and then they were allowed to pass through the gates and buy and sell merchandise. This was taking the mark. The parallels between this and the "mark of the beast" are stunning, and they further confirm the reality that the beast was Nero and the Roman Empire.

[Sean]

Like I said, there are several "types" of Antichrist from even the time of Nimrod....for instance: Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander the Great, The Caesars, Caligula, Nero, Constantine, The Popes, Napolean, Hitler, etc. etc.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Like I said, there are several "types" of Antichrist from even the time of Nimrod....for instance: Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander the Great, The Caesars, Caligula, Nero, Constantine, The Popes, Napolean, Hitler, etc. etc.

Beast beast beast. Not antichrist. There's a difference. Huge one!

[mfblume]

Why do so many apostolics confuse beast with antichrist?

Compare the two uses in the bible:


ANTICHRIST

1 John 2:18-19 KJV Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (19) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

1 John 2:22 KJV Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 KJV And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 KJV For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

That's it, the word ANTICHRIST is only used in THOSE 4 passages. Not once is it used in the entire Book of Revelation.

The lines I emboldened can describe millions of people. In fact, the only SINGULAR antichrist called "THE ANTICHRIST" in the bible is a SPIRIT that confesses Jesus did not come in the flesh. It is not a man! When it is in human form, it is ONLY MANY antichrists, never just one major one. The beast in Rev 13 has NOT ONE TRAIT ABOUT IT that is found in John's words about antichrist. Nothing John said in Rev 13 is mentioned in his epistles where he uses the term antichrist. NOTHING. John said antichrists were IN THE CHURCH BUT LEFT IT. How does that refer to the beast!? lol


BEAST

Revelation 13:1-4 KJV And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. (3) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. (4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:16-18 KJV (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (18) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


What is there that is common between anything written about the antichrist (that is a spirit that manifests in people as antichrists, WHO LEFT THE CHURCH!!!) and the BEAST of Rev 13?

NOTHING!

But that doesn't stop people from confusing over and over the antichrist with the beast.

That alone makes me highly question a person's eschatology if they cannot even see that difference. If they cannot see the difference in use of terms, how in the world will they be able to rightly divide the larger issue of the scriptures themselves?

[mfblume]

Jonathan Welton noticed this same thing, and said this in his booklet RAPTURELESS.

Passage #1: 1 and 2 John

To begin, we must realize that the term antichrist does not appear in the Book of Revelation at all. A simple search of a Strong's Concordance will reveal that the term antichrist is only used in four passages in the Bible, three times in First John and once in Second John.

To understand the term antichrist, we must first understand the context of John's writings. During the time of the first century Church, there was a cult system called Gnosticism. They taught that the spirit was good and the physical/emotional realms were evil, therefore Jesus could not have come to earth in an actual physical body. They taught that Jesus came to earth only as an ethereal spirit being. This teaching is heretical because it negates the truth of Jesus shedding His human blood for the remission of sin. The Gnostics gained so many followers in the early Church (about a third of the first century Church) that John wrote his first epistle in response to their heresy.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ (1 John 1:1-3).

John was writing to prove, as an eyewitness, that Jesus was not an ethereal ghost, but a real physical person. John was the disciple who leaned his head upon Jesus' chest, and he knew that Jesus was not merely a spirit. He even remarked in John 1:14, "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." The apostle's writings were very focused on those who had fallen into the first century Gnostic thinking. John went on, in his epistle, to say that those who claimed Jesus didn't have a physical body were actually antichrist.

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world (1 John 4:1-3).

Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist (2 John 1:7).

Any person who denies that Jesus came in the flesh, which is what the Gnostics of the first century were doing, is operating in the spirit of antichrist. The antichrist isn't a person; it is a belief system, specifically, Gnosticism.

John further mentions the antichrist spirit as something that the early believers had already heard of:

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming... (1 John 2:18 NASB).

First, it is important to note that certain Bible translations have inserted a word that is not in the Greek manuscripts; this has led to much confusion. These translations capitalize the word antichrist in First John 2:18. The reason for the capitalization is because the translators inserted the word the before the word antichrist, thus making antichrist into a proper noun, which requires capitalization.

The early Church had heard that antichrist (false teaching) was coming, but they had not heard that the Antichrist (a one-world ruler) was coming. The insertion of the and the capitalization of Antichrist was added 1500 years later by the translators. As I noted in Chapter 1, Martin Luther and the Protestants wanted to be able to point the condemning finger at the Catholic church, and by making antichrist into a proper noun, they could easily identify her as being such.

With that understanding, we can discern the true meaning of John's letter. John said that "as you have heard that antichrist is coming...." The important question is, when had the readers of John's letter heard this message of an impending antichrist? Considering that the term antichrist refers to Gnosticism (false teachers), it makes sense that John would be referencing what Jesus warned in Matthew 24—the coming of false teachers. The Gnosticism that John addressed in First and Second John was the false teaching that Jesus predicted.

The verse continues, "...even now many antichrists have come..." (1 John 2:18). In other words, many false teachings had already come: Gnosticism, the Nicolatian heresy, and the Judiazers' heresy (see Rev. 2:6,9,15; 3:9). John finishes this verse with, "This is how we know it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18). This again shows that John was referring to Jesus' prediction in Matthew 24 that one sign of the coming destruction of Jerusalem would be false teachers. So the appearance of Gnostic heresy was a sign of it being the last hour before the destruction of Jerusalem.

John continued,

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us (1 John 2:19).

The apostle John, writing before the AD 70 destruction, pointed to the fact that many had left the true Church and that this was proof that they were in the last hours of Jesus' prophecy from Matthew 24 being fulfilled.

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also (1 John 2:20-23).

John writes that those who deny that Jesus is the Christ are antichrist, which is a much broader definition than one individual being a future one-world ruler. Clearly, we can see that John was writing about Gnosticism in the first century Church. He never refers to a future one-world ruler possessed by satan himself. Antichrist does not refer to a one-world government ruler, but to ancient Gnosticism.

Anyway, back to the issue. lol