Mark of the beast idea - Page 6

mfblume · #51 10-23-2014, 12:10 PM

Folks, I changed views after having believed and preached futurism, and I know what it's like to see need to change views and be seriously criticized for it. So i do not disregard anything people say in contrast to my views. I may be wrong. I'll always be first to say that. But presently no views fit scripture alone as perfectly as what i feel my current view does. Those who feel they cannot be wrong are deluded. Lol

Those who claim the pattern in revelation is coincidence with exodus are just not being honest and are saying anything to avoid being shown as wrong. If we can't be honest with ourselves about this, hooboy!

Aquila · #52 10-23-2014, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

No, it shows the error of both! lol. I mean, you are taking the KORAN to determine what Revelation is saying. What better way to confirm false doctrine? You base your proof on what the Koran says! Rather than go to the bible itself, which I did, you do something totally different, and almost blasphemous, really.

Wow, that is almost blasphemy to me. lol Hooboy. But if you want to go tot he Koran instead of the bible itself to learn about Revelation, feel free.

But I suspect you never even read the comparison in total. If you did, you would know what I am saying is true. It is self-evident when a person sees those comparisons.

Bro. Blume... my point isn't that we should use the Quran or the Hadiths to interpret the Revelation. My point is that like it or not... there is a global religion out there that believes it is their mission to fulfill exactly what Futurism has seen in the Scriptures. And that even if every Christian became a Preterist today... this religion will push, and push, and push, and push until they see what they expect to see. Because in our religion... we're waiting to see the prophecies manifest. In their religion... they are called to fulfill them. So, we'll be watching them fulfill what Futurists have been expecting for generations.

Sean · #53 10-23-2014, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I never said he was. No brainer. I said Moses foreshadowed Jesus. You disagree? You don't agree that Moses was correct when he said Jesus was like Moses?

Moses was in no way shape or form, JESUS. Mike, you used some type of extreme imaginary typology to say that Moses was Jesus(because of similarities in their lives) . These passages about Jesus were about Jesus himself, not Moses at all.

It comes straight out of the brain, not the Bible.

Look at this... John 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jesus compared himself as the serpent in the wilderness....great comparison(or type of), but the serpent was NOT Jesus.

Aquila · #54 10-23-2014, 12:33 PM

Here's an interesting question for Partial Preterists...

Where in Scripture do we see the literal physical return of Jesus depicted prophetically?

Sean · #55 10-23-2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Instead of throwing out one liners perhaps people could just state their position and then demonstrate it, as well as demonstrating how a contrary position is incorrect?

The futurist position is ALREADY stated in the Bible bro....The preterist is the one that is "redefining" the plain words we read and believe.

Although I am not a preterist, brother Mike is by and large correct in pointing out that the Apocalypse cannot be understood without understanding the language of spiritual symbolism employed in the scripture, and without being familiar with the OT especially the Pentateuch.

Brother, there is NO man on planet earth that can tell us what it all means. The use of the O.T. to water down the future message of prophecy with VAGUE comparisons of words and phrases is not a good idea.

Everyone acknowledges there are symbols used in the Revelation, whether they are preterist, futurist, or historicist. Even hard core dispensationalist futurists admit for example that the Beast represents an earthly antichristian power - whether a man, an empire ("revived"?), a religious institution, or a conglomeration of all the above.

That Revelation has symbolism is not in dispute by anyone who made it past 3rd grade. What is disputed is the meaning of the symbolism.

Because there are prophecies in the making and yet "unfulfilled", we will not be able to connect the dots until the prophecies arrive, in person.

The smart thing to do is to read the prophecies at face value and when symbolism is approached, try to compare it to something ever so carefully and apprehensively. So far, most folks that just say they have the answer to a certain prophecy symbol have been at least partially wrong.

Esaias · #56 10-23-2014, 12:42 PM

The futurist interpretation is NOT "stated in the Bible" anymore than the preterist interpretation.

Seeking to understand spiritual truths by recourse to the Word of God is NOT watering things down.

Anyway, futurism and preterism are both Jesuit counter-reformation propaganda imo, so sally forth people! lol

Sean · #57 10-23-2014, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

The futurist interpretation is NOT "stated in the Bible" anymore than the preterist interpretation.

Sure it is, it involves very little commentary. It allows the reader to look at the world he lives in and connect the dots himself, without someone explaining ideas that are "unnoticed" in the simple passage or "reading between the lines".

Seeking to understand spiritual truths by recourse to the Word of God is NOT watering things down.

If you are saying an event that was slated to happen in the future has already happened, it is WASHING AWAY the meaning.

Anyway, futurism and preterism are both Jesuit counter-reformation propaganda imo, so sally forth people! lol

If you just stop thinking about everything you know already...relax...pick up the Bible and read it. You can see clearly as you read. Just like the good ol days before you started "thinking about stuff".

Thats how the Bible was intended for us to read. When it stops meaning something to us personally, relating to prophecy, we are already dead and in heaven.

houston · #58 10-23-2014, 01:01 PM

Islam came 600 years after Christianity. I view the Koran like I do the Book of Mormon...

mfblume · #59 10-23-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Moses was in no way shape or form, JESUS. Mike, you used some type of extreme imaginary typology to say that Moses was Jesus(because of similarities in their lives) . These passages about Jesus were about Jesus himself, not Moses at all.

It comes straight out of the brain, not the Bible.

Look at this... John 3:14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Jesus compared himself as the serpent in the wilderness....great comparison(or type of), but the serpent was NOT Jesus.

Why do you keep arguing against Moses being Jesus when i never once said Moses is Jesus or vice versa? Lol. I said foreshadow. Do you not know what a foreshadow is?

Esaias · #60 10-23-2014, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

If you just stop thinking about everything you know already...relax...pick up the Bible and read it. You can see clearly as you read. Just like the good ol days before you started "thinking about stuff".

Thats how the Bible was intended for us to read. When it stops meaning something to us personally, relating to prophecy, we are already dead and in heaven.

Brother, just because I am not a futurist doesn't mean prophecy doesn't relate to me "personally".

Preterism makes prophecy essentially irrelevent for the post AD70 church. Futurism makes prophecy essentially irrelevent for the "pre-rapture" church. Both render Antichrist a thing not to beware of for the vast majority of the Christians who have lived. Both leave Christians without a prophetic guide for some 1900 odd years. Both can be traced historically to the Roman counter-reformation. Both lead to various absurdities like pre-trib rapture or AD70 rapture. Preterism tends towards hyper-allegorizing and futurism tends towards hyper-literalising.

I find preterism inconsistent and futurism inconsistent. I mean within their own sets of premises. And I read the Bible for what it says, within its own context. I find therein prophesied a great apostacy from the faith, the rise of a pseudo-christian establishment, its secular and worldly power, it's centuries-long persecution of ALL who refuse its lordship, its apparent degeneration to an atrophied state, its sudden and "miraculous recovery" and renewed persecution of the saints, and its eventual overthrow and demise.

I also read of the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob/Israel and how they would become a multitude of powerful nations. How thry would be paganized but yet evangelized and carry God's Word to all the families of the world. How they would apostasize and come under attack and in repentance turn to the Lord and find deliverance.

And tracking history I find the amazing fact that those and many other prophecies have been fulfilled and continue to be fulfilled. So prophecy is immensely relevant to me personally.

Which is why I reject preterism and futurism both.