Mark of the beast idea

[Aquila]

My question was unanswered. So, I'll ask it again...

Question for Partial Preterists...

Where in Scripture do we see the literal physical return of Jesus depicted?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brother, just because I am not a futurist doesn't mean prophecy doesn't relate to me "personally".

Preterism makes prophecy essentially irrelevent for the post AD70 church. Futurism makes prophecy essentially irrelevent for the "pre-rapture" church. Both render Antichrist a thing not to beware of for the vast majority of the Christians who have lived. Both leave Christians without a prophetic guide for some 1900 odd years. Both can be traced historically to the Roman counter-reformation. Both lead to various absurdities like pre-trib rapture or AD70 rapture. Preterism tends towards hyper-allegorizing and futurism tends towards hyper-literalising.

I find preterism inconsistent and futurism inconsistent. I mean within their own sets of premises. And I read the Bible for what it says, within its own context. I find therein prophesied a great apostacy from the faith, the rise of a pseudo-christian establishment, its secular and worldly power, it's centuries-long persecution of ALL who refuse its lordship, its apparent degeneration to an atrophied state, its sudden and "miraculous recovery" and renewed persecution of the saints, and its eventual overthrow and demise.

I also read of the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob/Israel and how they would become a multitude of powerful nations. How thry would be paganized but yet evangelized and carry God's Word to all the families of the world. How they would apostasize and come under attack and in repentance turn to the Lord and find deliverance.

And tracking history I find the amazing fact that those and many other prophecies have been fulfilled and continue to be fulfilled. So prophecy is immensely relevant to me personally.

Which is why I reject preterism and futurism both.

I respect your opinion, but may I ask, do you believe in a "certain" position of others' concepts, or just disagree with everyone elses stuff?

If you agree with anothers' position, what DO YOU believe?

Just curious. If you dont want a rebuttal from me, let me know. Im just curious about folks' differing opinions these days.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Why do you keep arguing against Moses being Jesus when i never once said Moses is Jesus or vice versa? Lol. I said foreshadow. Do you not know what a foreshadow is?

Mike, with the sun on my back, and casting a foreshadow thats about 10 ft. long, I could take a 22 pistol and unload the clip into my shadow. It would not hurt at all. Ya know why?. My shadow is NOTHING.

You are making something out of NOTHING with your vague comparisons of "types", trying to connect Moses to Jesus somehow. The slight similarities are not enough to take a passage about the Lord and make them about a vaguely similar event in Exodus.

Then you turn it into..."this passage in Rev. is actually talking about this passage in Exodus"....or "Rev. is just a shadow of Exodus", (which Exodus physically happened).

I will box Mike Tysons shadow any day of the week, but not him!...Rev. is a real future event and not a shadow..

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The futurist interpretation is NOT "stated in the Bible" anymore than the preterist interpretation.

Seeking to understand spiritual truths by recourse to the Word of God is NOT watering things down.

Anyway, futurism and preterism are both Jesuit counter-reformation propaganda imo, so sally forth people! lol

This is a common misconception. Jesuits never proposed Preterism. They proposed more historicism where centuries are covered and focus not put on Israel and Jerusalem as Preterism puts it.

Preterism vastly differs from what Jesuits and historicism espoused. The harlot is Jerusalem. The first century alone took rev 1-19 into fulfillment. Try to find that in jesuit teachings.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, with the sun on my back, and casting a foreshadow thats about 10 ft. long, I could take a 22 pistol and unload the clip into my shadow. It would not hurt at all. Ya know why?. My shadow is NOTHING.

You are making something out of NOTHING with your vague comparisons of "types", trying to connect Moses to Jesus somehow. The slight similarities are not enough to take a passage about the Lord and make them about a vaguely similar event in Exodus.

Then you turn it into..."this passage in Rev. is actually talking about this passage in Exodus"....or "Rev. is just a shadow of Exodus", (which Exodus physically happened).

I will box Mike Tysons shadow any day of the week, but not him!...Rev. is a real future event and not a shadow..

That makes absolutely no sense at all. You clearly do not know what a foreshadow is.

Moses flatly stated Good would raise up a property like him. That is nothing to you? This betrays a gaping hole in your theology. Wow.

You see no topology in Moses as a little child going into Egypt escaping death by massacre as Jesus did the same? Wow.

There's nothing vague about it.

[mfblume]

Sean, A foreshadow is intentional typology by God. Like a shadow is similar but far less in quality than the image itself, Moses foreshadowed Christ in many ways. Hebrews actually uses the type.

Shadows aren't nothing. They're indications of what is the greater antitype.

Moses went into Egypt as an infant like Christ during massacre. Moses led Israel out of Egypt to a mountain called Sinai where he gave them ten commandments. Jesus led a multitude to the mountain and gave nine beatitudes.

Moses brought law. Jesus brought Grace and truth.

The comparisons between Revelation and exodus journey are far far from vague. They're unbelievably astounding!

Only one with eyes to see who cannot see would dismiss them.

Jesus is even compared to Israel coming out of Egypt by the New testament.

Matt 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Moses gave Israel the words Jesus quoted to the devil while in the wilderness as Israel was told those words in the wilderness.

That's one reason Moses was with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. Jesus face shone like the sun with no veil like Moses ' did. In fact 2Cor 3 contrasts Moses with Jesus in many places.

It all helps us understand Jesus better. It's a miracle of God's word. Jesus led an exodus from sin's bondage as Moses led Israel out. The exodus is even used in Hebrews chapter 3-4 as a shadow. You say that's nothing? Lately folks are near blasphemy around here. Wow

[Sean]

Blasphemy is your systematic "dismantling" of the book of Revelation with your ideology. Like your assertion that Rev. is symbolic of Exodus.

Mike, you are obsessed with types and shadows. Your theology points backwards. Mine points forwards.

The Lord Jesus in Rev. is not a shadow figure of Moses, but Moses is a "shadow figure" of Jesus.

Look at your stuff...you are telling folks that read Rev,,,,,,"hey everyone, look at Exodus, Rev. means Exodus"......you got the end of the Bible pointing to the beginning of the Bible...

Whats wrong with this picture???

[Disciple4life]

Originally Posted by Sean

Blasphemy is your systematic "dismantling" of the book of Revelation with your ideology. Like your assertion that Rev. is symbolic of Exodus.

Mike, you are obsessed with types and shadows. Your theology points backwards. Mine points forwards.

The Lord Jesus in Rev. is not a shadow figure of Moses, but Moses is a "shadow figure" of Jesus.

Look at your stuff...you are telling folks that read Rev,,,,,,"hey everyone, look at Exodus, Rev. means Exodus"......you got the end of the Bible pointing to the beginning of the Bible...

Whats wrong with this picture???

Sean, are you even reading what Mike types? Seriously, you said nothing that was remotely close to what he said. And I have NO idea how you came to your conclusion because I can not believe somebody could misrepresent what was said any more than you did. WOW!

[shag]

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must NOT shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,



Ok, I fixed it.

[Sean]

Yes I am...here is his original post....
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
The key to understanding anything in Revelation is to see a pattern in the Old Testament that is undeniably similar, and to determine what the typology between it and New testament teachings are, such as the Passover lamb being the type of Jesus when we see the passover lamb in Revelation 5:6.

First, we must recognize there is such a perfect pattern between the name of God on the foreheads of the 144,000 in Rev 14:1 and the placement of God's Law on the forehead and hand in Deut 6. The name of God on the forehead in Rev 14:1 corresponds to the Law of God on the forehead in the Exodus. And just as the people of God backslid just when God was ready to give them the Law, and worshiped the image of the beast in the form of the golden calf, we see satan's responding similarly to the name of God on the forehead by issuing his own mark for the forehead and hand.

In order to determine the nature of the mark of the beast, therefore, we have to learn the nature of the worship of the beast in the form of the golden calf and compare it to the reception of God's law from the hand of Moses. That will help us contrast the name of God in the forehead from the mark of the beast in the forehead in Rev 13-14.

The bible interprets itself in this fashion. Unless we utilize THIS KEY to reading Revelation, we will be a million miles off target.


He is trying to tell us that these certain passages in Revelations is REALLY talking about the EXODUS, right?


These 2 books describe 1 single event right?


I have been gaining from this series of posts that he believes that these certain passages Rev. and Exodus are actually describing one in the same event.

Please, please, please tell me exactly what I am supposed to be understanding here, please.