Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father? - Page 33

Sean · #**321** 11-01-2014, 07:23 AM

Prax, I am not unitarian. Bernard speaks of my idea on the post I mentioned already. I said that Jesus became Almighty God after the ascention. Unitarians say Jesus is not and never will be God, ever. You are flat out lying and are purposely misrepresenting me here to try to make me look bad.(its a smear tactic) I know exactly what you are up to. I know that is your style. If things get tough, you will say whatever makes you look better than your opponent.

Unitarians, like the one called "SRM" on AFF, do NOT believe that Jesus is God at all.

I believe Jesus is GOD, right now as we speak.

You must stop lying to try to make a point.

Thats how politicians win elections, but thats a sin either way.

Sean · #**322** 11-01-2014, 07:42 AM

Okay folks, check this out......Isaiah 9:6...

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:(present human tense during his life)

and the government shall(is not yet) be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.(future SPIRITUAL tense AFTER the resurrection)

Dont you see the change in tense in the passage? It changes from "is" to "shall"...why?

Dont you see the present HUMAN tense change to future SPIRITUAL tense???

Maybe bro. Sean just made a point???

Could it be that Jesus was a real human being, then later became the wonderful, counselor, everlasting Father, Mighty God, prince of peace???

Sean · #**323** 11-01-2014, 07:54 AM

Why doesn't the passage say this?....

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

There is a reason it was given to us in the 2 tenses as follows...

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The Lord is trying to show someone something here...figure it out...I have!

Sean · #**324** 11-01-2014, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do you see what you say? The Father (God), left His human Son (Jesus)...then you contradict that and say "Jesus is Almighty God!!"

You have 1 God and 1 human

Maybe you can answer my questions that I asked earlier to help me?

Sure, Jesus is Almighty God after the resurrection. He has a "glorified" body that the Godhead dwells inside of in fullness. He had to die and resurrect before this could occur as we know it now.

This God indwelled, glorified body is TRUE oneness.

(notice, before the resurrection, Jesus was at one place at a time, but after the resurrection, Jesus is omnipresent) Something happened there...shall I elaborate?

jfrog · #**325** 11-01-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

What is so hard about a human being being exalted by Almighty God as our God and being Indwelled by that same God?

....

There is soo much wrong with saying Jesus was exalted by Almighty God as our God. I don't even know where to begin.

1. It makes you have 2 Gods. Jesus is a separate person and thus separate God from the God that exalted him as God.

2. God isn't a position one can be exalted to.

I'm sure there's more I could offer but I think the above 2 points shows what is hard about a human being being exalted by Almighty God as our God. (Verses like my glory I will not give to another come to mind).

jfrog · #**326** 11-01-2014, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Prax, I am not unitarian. Bernard speaks of my idea on the post I mentioned already. I said that Jesus became Almighty God after the ascention. Unitarians say Jesus is not and never will be God, ever. You are flat out lying and are purposely misrepresenting me here to try to make me look bad.(its a smear tactic) I know exactly what you are up to. I know that is your style. If things get tough, you will say whatever makes you look better than your opponent.

Unitarians, like the one called "SRM" on AFF, do NOT believe that Jesus is God at all.

I believe Jesus is GOD, right now as we speak.

You must stop lying to try to make a point.

Thats how politicians win elections, but thats a sin either way.

Everything you say up until Jesus became God is identical to what a unitarian would say. Sorry man, Prax wasn't lying when he compared your position to the unitarian one and then mentioned that one difference.

jfrog · #**327** 11-01-2014, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Okay folks, check this out......Isaiah 9:6...

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:(present human tense during his life)

and the government shall(is not yet) be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.(future SPIRITUAL tense AFTER the resurrection)

Dont you see the change in tense in the passage? It changes from "is" to "shall"...why?

Dont you see the present HUMAN tense change to future SPIRITUAL tense???

Maybe bro. Sean just made a point???

Could it be that Jesus was a real human being, then later became the wonderful, counselor, everlasting Father, Mighty God, prince of peace???

No one becomes God.

jfrog · #**328** 11-01-2014, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Sure, Jesus is Almighty God after the resurrection. He has a "glorified" body that the Godhead dwells inside of in fullness. He had to die and resurrect before this could occur as we know it now.

This God indwelled, glorified body is TRUE oneness.

(notice, before the resurrection, Jesus was at one place at a time, but after the resurrection, Jesus is omnipresent) Something happened there...shall I elaborate?

The physical glorified body even after the ressurrection was not omnipresent (everywhere at once...) I'd hate to have seen everyone die because Jesus' glorified physical body suddenly was taking up the same space as their heart... but they didn't. Jesus in his glorified body wasn't omnipresent.

Abiding Now · #**329** 11-01-2014, 12:28 PM

Sean, am I reading you right? Jesus was not God from birth to death, but became God at the resurrection. Again am I reading you correctly? J/W

Sean · #**330** 11-01-2014, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Sean, am I reading you right? Jesus was not God from birth to death, but became God at the resurrection. Again am I reading you correctly? J/W

Yes, that is what I think the Bible is trying to teach us. If I am wrong, so be it. I know how to teach the way standard oneness teaches also. I can easily go back to that. I can go back to the devine/man concept if I must. But I need a few questions answered first.

Standard oneness says Jesus became God at conception, I just think it was after his death.

I think we both we both can agree that he did not preexist, right?

BTW, are you folks surprised?

I have been saying this since day 1 on AFF. I debated Prax AND Luke with my concept. (In all fairness, I am "testing" my position on learned brethren)