Homosexuality question

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've learned that God's love, mercy, kindness, and patience is amazing.

Amen on the AMAZING, but I've also learned that all of these are conditional based upon an individual's response to repentance.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by houston

Most of us would agree that homosexuality is a sin. Other than "the bible says so." Why is it a
Sin?

I have been talking to a kid for a few days. He is gay and has been looking for a church. Today he asked why it's wrong for him to be gay. Why is it wrong for him to love a man.

Other than "the bible says so" I didn't have an answer, so I haven't replied.

Houston, I've not read all the thread but I want to ask a question. Why is it wrong to have heterosexual relations before marriage?

I think the answer to your question will be found in the same place as the question I just asked on heterosexual relations.

I mean neither of those things hurt an individual. So you are not wronging any particular person. So maybe the best answer is that those actions harm society.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Houston, I've not read all the thread but I want to ask a question. Why is it wrong to have heterosexual relations before marriage?

I think the answer to your question will be found in the same place as the question I just asked on heterosexual relations.

I mean neither of those things hurt an individual. So you are not wronging any particular person. So maybe the best answer is that those actions harm society.

Any relations outside of a biblical marriage commitment does harm both parties involved. Because without this biblical commitment, one partner is essentially using the other for personal gratification as opposed to enjoying another as an individual in life long commitment. In essence, any physical relations outside of a biblical marriage is dehumanizing. This is the very essence of all sexual sin.

You'll notice that in the Bible the following living arrangements ( or family structures) were permitted, blessed, and even accepted by God:

• Monogamous Marriage – Marriage consisting of one man and one woman.
• Polygamous Marriage – Marriage consisting of one man and more than one woman.
• Concubines – Mistresses/Lovers recognized within society and the marriage covenant.
• War Brides – Arranged marriage with female prisoners of war.
• Levirate Marriage – The marrying of a dead brother’s first wife, even if the living brother was already married.
• Servant Marriage – The arrangement of marriage between servants.

The following practices are condemned:

• Adultery – Unapproved sexual activity outside of the marriage covenant.
• Fornication – Indiscriminant and promiscuous sexual activity.
• Sodomy – Homosexual rape, male temple prostitution
• Incest – Sexual activity with close relatives.
• Rape – Forced sexual activity with a woman.
• Bestiality – Sexual activity with animals.
• Pedophilia – Sexual activity with children.
• Harlotry – Sexual activity as a religious rite or for money.
• Lust – The desire to actually commit adultery.

Please note: God appears to allow for greater sexual expression when all parties are committed, thereby respecting and honoring one another. All actions that God condemned are exploitive. So, in my mind, God's ethic again is, "love". So, the ethic would require that the two or more individuals (as it might have related to polygamy) involved and living in a manner that is committed to a life of love, honor, and respect for one another. Any other uncommitted action would be exploitive of another human being and as result would be considered sin.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Any relations outside of a biblical marriage commitment does harm both parties involved. Because without this biblical commitment, one partner is essentially using the other for personal gratification as opposed to enjoying another as an individual in life long commitment. In essence, any physical relations outside of a biblical marriage is dehumanizing. This is the very essence of all sexual sin.

Amen and amen.

[mfblume]

Someone was on one of these forums a few years back who was a former homosexual. He wrote a book about it and yet he seemed to still portray an unhealthy and incorrect version of sexuality. He said a person should not engage in sex even in marriage unless children would be born from it. He was totally against the idea of sexuality as a gift from God of pleasure to the married couple. Someone even asked him if he ate ice cream, which does nothing for the body, but is eaten purely for enjoyment. I don't think he answered.

The problem is certainly deep-rooted in these folks, and often seriously hard to break free from.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Someone was on one of these forums a few years back who was a former homosexual. He wrote a book about it and yet he seemed to still portray an unhealthy and incorrect version of sexuality. He said a person should not engage in sex even in marriage unless children would be born from it. He was totally against the idea of sexuality as a gift from God of pleasure to the married couple. Someone even asked him if he ate ice cream, which does nothing for the body, but is eaten purely for enjoyment. I don't think he answered.

The problem is certainly deep-rooted in these folks, and often seriously hard to break free from.

Amen. I tend to be very patient and merciful towards those who are honest and open about their weaknesses and failings. I often say that I'd rather get to Heaven and God tell me that I was too merciful towards others than be told that I wasn't merciful enough. Also, I try to remember that while Scripture is inerrant... our interpretations of it are not. Therefore, while I have a position on various issues that I ascribe to and that directs my decisions or thoughts... I'm respectful of those who present a different take on things.

Ultimately, in the end God alone is our judge. God is love. Therefore, I know that God will judge rightly, mercifully, and with justice.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You'll notice that in the Bible the following living arrangements ( or family structures) were permitted, blessed, and even accepted by God:

• Monogamous Marriage – Marriage consisting of one man and one woman.
• Polygamous Marriage – Marriage consisting of one man and more than one woman.
• Concubines – Mistresses/Lovers recognized within society and the marriage covenant.
• War Brides – Arranged marriage with female prisoners of war.
• Levirate Marriage – The marrying of a dead brother’s first wife, even if the living brother was already married.
• Servant Marriage – The arrangement of marriage between servants.

Polygamous Marriage was not created by God, it was created by men, Lamech with his two wives. God may have allowed the practice to exist, but does not mean that he condoned it. Actually all the rules he created for more than one wife was meant as a way to discourage such type of unions.

If you do not want to outright ban something that is acceptable in society, the best way is to add so many regulations to it, that it will make it unbearable for most people to accept.

Regulate the practice to such an extent that it works just as an outright prohibition would.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Polygamous Marriage was not created by God, it was created by men, Lamech with his two wives. God may have allowed the practice to exist, but does not mean that he condoned it. Actually all the rules he created for more than one wife was meant as a way to discourage such type of unions.

Why then, does God Himself state that He gave David all that belonged to Saul, including "wives", and would have even given more to him???

2 Samuel 12:8English Standard Version (ESV)
8 And I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.

Why also does the Law of Moses command the surviving brother of a dead man to marry his dead brother's wife and rear children up in his dead brother's name... even if he is already married???

Deuteronomy 25:5-10 ESV
If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead man shall not be married outside the family to a stranger. Her husband's brother shall go in to her and take her as his wife and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her. And the first son whom she bears shall succeed to the name of his dead brother, that his name may not be blotted out of Israel. And if the man does not wish to take his brother's wife, then his brother's wife shall go up to the gate to the elders and say, ‘My husband's brother refuses to perpetuate his brother's name in Israel; he will not perform the duty of a husband's brother to me.’ Then the elders of his city shall call him and speak to him, and if he persists, saying, ‘I do not wish to take her,’ then his brother's wife shall go up to him in the presence of the elders and pull his sandal off his foot and spit in his face. And she shall answer and say, ‘So shall it be done to the man who does not build up his brother's house.’

If polygamy was a "sin" why are so many polygamists listed in the "Hall of Faith" in Hebrews?

Lastly, consider David and Solomon alone. Each wrote vast portions of the Psalms and Proverbs. Consider that each most likely wrote a given Psalm or Proverb one day after being with one wife.... and another Psalm or Proverb the next... after having been with a different wife.

If you do not want to outright ban something that is acceptable in society, the best way is to add so many regulations to it, that it will make it unbearable for most people to accept.

Regulate the practice to such an extent that it works just as an outright prohibition would.

Unless something endangers another's life, liberty, or property... I don't believe the government has any business regulating or banning it.

[Aquila]

My point was that God clearly blessed men, and actually praises men, who were not married after our modern form of "marriage". Many had wives, concubines, war brides, and Levirate wives. God is clearly no Puritanical Prude. The only consistent ethic one will find in all these unions is... love and respect. All sexual sins degrade, use, and exploit.

Therefore, all relationships predicated upon love have beneficial elements to offer.

Consider marriage itself. It was originally a private contract between individuals and families. It wasn't a regulated government social construct.

[Pressing-On]

This is a great testimony. A very intelligent woman that God is using for His glory.

Charlene Cothran - Gay Activist Finds Christ