Those Moderate Muslims Again...

[n david]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The discovery of gold in California, early in 1848, prompted American migration and expansion into the west. The greed of Americans for money and land was rejuvenated with the Homestead Act of 1862. In California and Texas there was blatant genocide of Indians by non-Indians during certain historic periods. In California, the decrease from about a quarter of a million to less than 20,000 is primarily due to the cruelties and wholesale massacres perpetrated by the miners and early settlers. Indian education began with forts erected by Jesuits, in which indigenous youths were incarcerated, indoctrinated with non-indigenous Christian values, and forced into manual labor. These children were forcibly removed from their parents by soldiers and many times never saw their families until later in their adulthood. This was after their value systems and knowledge had been supplanted with colonial thinking. One of the foundations of the U.S. imperialist strategy was to replace traditional leadership of the various indigenous nations with indoctrinated "graduates" of white "schools," in order to expedite compliance with U.S. goals and expansion.

Post your source.

[aegsm76]

Wii - do you believe the Jewish state has a "right to exist"?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by n david

Post your source.

Wadr, this is common knowledge, a google away. Many, many of the children never saw any of their family, ever again.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by n david

Post your source.

Did you go to school dude? That's American History 101. If you did not study western expansion, the Indian wars, and colonialism (after all if you can burn a few witches you can certainly tag a few raggedy savages right?) then get to work. This isn't kindergarten storytime and I'm not going to play "pastor to tell you what to think because you're incapable of deciding for yourself". In here - you are expected to do your own work. Don't shoot your eye out.

John Smith: “there is yet in Virginia no place discovered to bee so Savage in which the Savages have not religion...But their chiefe God they worship is the Divell [Devil].”

John Smith: ”till their Priests and Ancients have their throats cut, there is no hope to bring them to conversion.”

John Winthrop, 1629 “...the whole earth is the Lord's garden, and he hath given it to the sons of Adam to be tilled and improved by them. Why then should we stand starving here for the places of habitation, (many men spending as much labor and cost to recover or keep sometimes an acre or two of lands as would procure him many hundreds of acres, as good or better, in another place,) and in the mean time suffer whole countries, as profitable for the use of man, to lie waste without any improvement.”

John Winthrop: “the natives are neere all dead of the smalle Poxe, so as the Lord hathe cleared our title to what we posses.”



James Axtell, "Natives and Newcomers" Jesuits set up reserves for Native Americans and missionaries. The laws governing these reserves reflected Christian values, and punishments varied from whipping, payment, to even death for crimes of adultery, witchcraft, and worshiping any other deity than the Christian God. However, many Natives did not truly convert and became false Christians to avoid punishment, which only further angered the Europeans. Lesser punishments on the reserves were for the following crimes: powwowing, gaming, fornication, polygamy, mourning with loud noises (such as howling), body-greasing, as well as several others

Today, now the only source of lost language is in the notes of the priests and ministers who took it. : Due to their desire to communicate the Word of God to the "savage", they compiled significant records of the languages they heard. Today, in the modern world of Native American revitalization movements, at a time when many of the the thousands of languages are being lost and Indigenous communities are trying to stop that loss or even regain already extinct languages, the only records they have to relearn their languages are of those priests' notes and translated Bibles. Bitter irony that the religion that stole their language and culture from them, is a critical resource for regaining it.

What's a jot here or a tittle there right?:

A common practice was to convert the more "fun" stories of the Bible into picture books, and teach a young child the story so he would tell it to the people in the native language. If the religious leaders could find any similarity between the individual tribe's religion and Christianity, they would exaggerate that aspect. In Mexico City, where the religion was bloody, and where god sacrificed his brother, and children were sacrificed to the gods, the story of Abraham and Jesus were highlighted... the very bloody story of Jesus.

There were several other obstacles facing missionaries, notably language. Christian words, based in Judeao-Christian, grecco Roman culture had no direct parallels in many if not most Native Languages. Sin, Heaven or Hell are obviously non existent, but for most nomadic tribes, neither shepherd nor sheep had any relevance. King, kingdom, prayer, ark, redemption, sacrament, baptism all had to be defined, to some often amusing results

NOTE: In an early Lakota bible that still exists in the Library of Congress, Jesus the Shepard was described as "Jesus the man who road horses to hunt without killing the deer"

Idly thinking it's probably been awhile since you've been in a library.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Wii - do you believe the Jewish state has a "right to exist"?

A better question is do you believe that a country has a right to exist under conditions of apartheid and does any country have a right to exist when their existence depends on rounding up and forcing millions of people into walled camps under siege? Do you believe that the basic principles that apply to everyone else do not apply to a single group based on their background or religion or do you believe that there are basic fundamental principles that apply equally to everyone?

Is it acceptable for us in the US to cross the border into Mexico and destroy homes and take the properties every time someone from Mexico commits a crime here in the US?

I believe that as we in America learned and as the Germans learned and as the South Africans learned and as so many others who engaged in colonialism, bigotry, and oppression have learned they will also eventually learn that fundamentally racist and unjust societies either change or die. Hopefully as the world recognizes the rights of the people who were displaced to create that state they will change and learn to live together side by side, as they did for thousands of years before they displaced their neighbors and took their property with no recourse.

[n david]

I meant the large text you lifted, which was written by Sharon Johnston in, "The Genocide of Native Americans: A Sociological View." Next time don't just plagiarize someone else's work, post the source.

If you post bits or excerpts of a news story or someone else's book, you need to put it in quotation marks and source it.

[n david]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Wadr, this is common knowledge, a google away. Many, many of the children never saw any of their family, ever again.

Obviously the subject matter is, yes, but he used an entire paragraph of someone's book without either putting it in quotation marks or sourcing it. Did you know that whole paragraph was from someone else's book?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Did you go to school dude? That's American History 101. If you did not study western expansion, the Indian wars, and colonialism (after all if you can burn a few witches you can certainly tag a few raggedy savages right?) then get to work. This isn't kindergarten storytime and I'm not going to play "pastor to tell you what to think because you're incapable of deciding for yourself". In here - you are expected to do your own work. Don't shoot your eye out.

John Smith: "there is yet in Virginia no place discovered to bee so Savage in which the Savages have not religion...But their chiefe God they worship is the Divell [Devil]."

John Smith: "till their Priests and Ancients have their throats cut, there is no hope to bring them to conversion."

John Winthrop, 1629 "...the whole earth is the Lord's garden, and he hath given it to the sons of Adam to be tilled and improved by them. Why then should we stand starving here for the places of habitation, (many men spending as much labor and cost to recover or keep sometimes an acre or two of lands as would procure him many hundreds of acres, as good or better, in another place,) and in the mean time suffer whole countries, as profitable for the use of man, to lie waste without any improvement."

John Winthrop: "the natives are neere all dead of the smalle Poxe, so as the Lord hathe cleared our title to what we posses."

James Axtell, "Natives and Newcomers" Jesuits set up reserves for Native Americans and missionaries. The laws governing these reserves reflected Christian values, and punishments varied from whipping, payment, to even death for crimes of adultery, witchcraft, and worshiping any other deity than the Christian God. However, many Natives did not truly convert and became false Christians to avoid punishment, which only further angered the Europeans. Lesser punishments on the reserves were for the following crimes: powwowing, gaming, fornication, polygamy, mourning with loud noises (such as howling), body-greasing, as well as several others

Today, now the only source of lost language is in the notes of the priests and ministers who took it. : Due to their desire to communicate the Word of God to the "savage", they compiled significant records of the languages they heard. Today, in the modern world of Native American revitalization movements, at a time when many of the the thousands of languages are being lost and Indigenous communities are trying to stop that loss or even regain already extinct languages, the only records they have to relearn their languages are of those priests' notes and translated Bibles. Bitter irony that the religion that stole their language and culture from them, is a critical resource for regaining it.

What's a jot here or a tittle there right?:

A common practice was to convert the more "fun" stories of the Bible into picture books, and teach a young child the story so he would tell it to the people in the native language. If the religious leaders could find any similarity between the individual tribe's religion and Christianity, they would exaggerate that aspect. In Mexico City, where the religion was bloody, and where god sacrificed his brother, and children were sacrificed to the gods, the story of Abraham and Jesus were highlighted... the very bloody story of Jesus.

There were several other obstacles facing missionaries, notably language. Christian words, based in Judeao-Christian, grecco Roman culture had no direct parallels in many if not most Native Languages. Sin, Heaven or Hell are obviously non existent, but for most nomadic tribes, neither shepherd nor sheep had any relevance. King, kingdom, prayer, ark, redemption, sacrament, baptism all had to be defined, to some often amusing results

NOTE: In an early Lakota bible that still exists in the Library of Congress, Jesus the Shepard was described as "Jesus the man who road horses to hunt without killing the deer"

Idly thinking it's probably been awhile since you've been in a library.

Source your quotes. Put them in quotation marks and source them. If it's not your material, post the source.

[Pliny]

Typical! LOL!!!

ALWAYS justifying the terrorism today of "Moderate Muslims" with bad behavior of someone else well over 100 years ago!
Note: NO ONE is trying to justify the evil perpetrated by this government yet Muslims ALWAYS defend their faith and "values" (or lack thereof) by trying to point out the evil of someone else even if that someone is dead and buried and long forgotten.

Note the dates below, this is from this month alone.

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2014.11.21 (Zab, Iraq) - ISIS beheads two people at a market after accusing them of apostasy.
2014.11.19 (Azaya Kura, Nigeria) - Forty-five villagers are slaughtered by armed Islamists, who tied the victims and slit their throats.
2014.11.19 (Erbil, Iraq) - A suicide bomber takes out five Kurdish 'apostates'.
2014.11.18 (Nasti Kot, Pakistan) - An 11-year-old boy is among two killed when the Taliban bomb a school bus carrying Shia students.
2014.11.18 (Jerusalem, Israel) - Three Americans are among four rabbis and a guard, who are hacked to death at a synagogue by two Palestinian terrorists with axes shouting praises to Allah.
2014.11.17 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - A Somali-American engineer is shot by al-Shabaab while working on a sanitation project.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


Yet another example of those "Moderate Muslims":
Monday, 10 November 2014
Muslim Mob Burns Christian Couple Alive

Sajjad Maseeh and Shama Bibi were expecting their fifth child. But that baby will never enter this world, nor will the couple’s four other children ever see their parents again. This is because, this past Tuesday, a Muslim mob in Pakistan’s Punjab Province burned the Christian couple alive in an industrial kiln, leaving nothing remaining but charred bones and the victims’ discarded shoes.

The couple’s alleged “crime,” if you want to call it that, was desecration of the Koran. The problems started approximately two weeks ago after the death of Maseeh’s father, a local religious healer. As Bibi cleaned out the departed’s room, she removed certain items from an old trunk and discarded and burned the rest. A garbage man collected the trash the next day, claimed that pages from the Koran were among it, and informed a local cleric.

And so rumors spread about the “blasphemous” couple. At this point the Christians decided to flee, but were prevented from doing so by Yousaf Gujjar, owner of the brick factory in which Maseeh worked. Claiming the couple owed him money, Gujjar and a dozen accomplices seized them from their home and locked them in a factory office.

According to Maseeh’s family, by Tuesday, “loudspeaker announcements from local mosques were branding Sajjad and Shama as ‘blasphemous’ and saying they should be ‘wajib-ul-qatal,’ which translates as ‘necessarily murdered,’” reports NBC News. That 24-year-old Shama was “uneducated and probably didn't realize she was burning the Quran and not just any documents,” as lawyer and Christian rights activist Mushtaq Gill put it, wouldn’t change their fate.

...

Whipped into a frenzy by local clerics, a mob of 1,200 to 1,500 marched on the factory. “Unable to break down the office door,” writes NBC, “the swelling crowd ripped open the building’s thatched roof.” The mob then threw bricks at the victims and beat them with sticks while chanting “We will lay down our lives for the honor of the prophet.” Their legs were even broken so they couldn’t run away. NBC then reports on the couple's final moments, as related by family spokesman Javed Maseeh:

"They [the mob] picked them up by their arms and legs and held them over the brick furnace until their clothes caught fire," he said. "And then they threw them inside the furnace."

...

All this happened while, reports witness Malik Abdul Aziz, the “couple were screaming, begging for mercy and saying they have not committed any sin.”

But there would be no mercy — and there very well may be no justice. As the Daily Mail reported:

...

A conviction or merely an accusation of blasphemy can put one's life in danger. Even if one is acquitted, the fear of death at the hands of vigilantes remains.

A Christian woman, Aasia Bibi, has been on death row since November 2010 after she was found guilty of making blasphemous remarks about Prophet Muhammad during a quarrel with a Muslim woman. Two prominent politicians who were campaigning for the release of Aasia Bibi and reform of the law were ruthlessly murdered in Pakistan's capital. Ex Punjab governor, Salman Taseer, was shot dead in January 2011 by his own bodyguard while the then federal minister for minority affairs, Shahbaz Bhatti, was killed in March 2011.

And the burning of Christians alive is not uncommon. Pakistani Muslims burned the Christian villages of Shanti Nagar and Sangla Hill in, respectively, 1997 and 2005; and incensed by rumors of a man who burned some pages from the Koran,
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-...n-couple-alive


Absolutely DESPICABLE!
It is absolutely heinous that Muslims would seek to justify their lawlessness, bigotry, hatred and intolerance by spouting off the evil of generations ago by someone else.
This is a prime example of wht Islam has no place in a civil society.
Jews, Christians, Bahai, Hindu and all sorts of other "religions" can coexist peacefully. But Islam will never coexist peacefully with any other religion. When they terrorize others they seek to justify rather than accept responsibility.

And why not? Their prophet was a bloody pedophile. They are just acting out what their profit did.


This is what is happening today not 200 years ago.