Forgiveness only happens with Forgiveness

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by jfrog

And yet Jesus said if you do not forgive others then the Father will not forgive you. Talk about his blood and crucifixion and sacrifice and your faith in him all you want but if you don't forgive others you will not be forgiven. Jesus said that not me.
You want another witness? In the gospel of Mark, Jesus says the same thing.

Beloved, it seems to me that you made a blanket statement on forgiveness.

I want to qualify my answer and be more explicit: for I guess to you it seems that I was just beating around the bush. Here goes:

Baptism, which is for remission of sins, will not avail the unrepentant sinner anything. Remission, like the Holy Spirit, is offered: but remission of sins will not be attained, and the Holy Spirit will be there only to convict of sin.

However, for the saint: We have the scriptures: "...we have an advocate with the Father...and if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Do you see the two-fold work of the Lord? He will not only forgive (is faithful), but will also cleanse (is just). In other words, the Lord will also root out the spirit of unforgiveness.

I hope this answer helps.

[votivesoul]

There is no salvation outside of forgiving others. In Matthew 18, Jesus told the parable of the unjust steward who the master sent off to prison to be tortured for his unforgiveness of a small debt, after he was forgiven a great debt.

Jesus said "so shall my heavenly Father do unto you, if you don't, from your heart, forgive every man his trespasses against you" (quoting from memory).

God will send every man to the prison of hell to be tormented if we don't forgive others their small debts against us, when after all God forgive our monumental, unpayable debt against Him.

I have seen born again believers be so delivered up. They are mentally and spiritually tormented every day of their life; theirs is an existence of pure agony, all because they refused to forgive others.

Jesus wasn't lying, nor was He mistaken. Fear Him who can destroy both your body and soul in hell.

[shazeep]

amen. i would like to add that this may very well happen in the now--Understand I AM.

"I have seen born again believers be so delivered up. They are mentally and spiritually tormented every day of their life; theirs is an existence of pure agony, all because they refused to forgive others"

sounds like hell to me; shall it eternally be so.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by shazeep

amen. i would like to add that this may very well happen in the now--Understand I AM.

"I have seen born again believers be so delivered up. They are mentally and spiritually tormented every day of their life; theirs is an existence of pure agony, all because they refused to forgive others"

sounds like hell to me; shall it eternally be so.

Received exactly as it was meant. Well done.

[shazeep]

HA! well that was a curve ball...

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Received exactly as it was meant. Well done.

You forgot to say, "grasshopper".

[shazeep]

hey, i'm thrilled that the concept is finally emerging--I'll take it!

[jfrog]

Compare Matthew 18:21-35 and Matthew 6:14-15

Matthew 6:14-15
23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

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How much more clear can Jesus' parable be: Fail to forgive others and even though God has in the past forgiven you for your debt he will refuse to maintain that forgiveness and thus you will revert to being unforgiven and owing God in full.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Well if he's repented and been baptized then it's promised to him. So I guess we better put this back at repentance. Do you really believe a person must forgive every single person that has wronged them or that they didn't truly repent?

Seeing that we are one spirit with the Lord (I Corinthians 6:17) and that we are branches of the true vine (John 15:5), Jesus Christ, we should ask... What would Jesus do? We are to be conformed into the image and likeness of Jesus, being living extensions of Him. So yes... I believe that one is called to forgive every person and every wrong... even to the point of truly loving one's enemies.

This is not an easy path. It is about crucifying the self that Christ might live... in us.

[Aquila]

If we find it difficult to forgive... it is because we have failed to love as He desires us to love.