Obey them that have the rule over you - Page 9

thephnxman · #1 01-16-2015, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lafon

Here's the manner in which The Interlinear Greek-English New Testament (a word-for-word translation of the original writings) records the three (3) passages of Hebrews 13 wherein the phrase "them that have the rule over you" appears (see vss. #7, 17 & 24):
"Remember the [ones] leading of you, who have spoke to you the word of God, of whom looking at the result of the conduct imitate their faith."
"Obey ye the [ones] leading of you and submit to [them]; for they watch on behalf of the souls of you as account rendering; in order that with joy this they may do and not groaning; for profitless to you this [would be]."
"Greet ye all the [ones] leading of you and all the saints, greet you the [ones] from Italy."
As noted by Votivesoul, the word OVER does not appear in the original Greek manuscript, and neither does RULE. In each passage it appears the KJV translators have replaced "LEADING" with "rule over," which is NOT an accurate manner of translating the word " ."

The ones who are, or should be, "leading" are they that evangelized the new converts...if
it be that they have also been truly discipled (taught how to work the ministry). We should
be with the newbies when they call, sit with them in the pews, and just plain mentor them.

Of course, it seems to me, most folks are only taught how to invite to the church, and then
handed over to the pastor. Purely unscriptural.

Dante · #2 01-17-2015, 02:16 AM

Everyone is so obsessed with authority and leadership. Get over yourselves.

thephnxman · #3 01-17-2015, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante

Everyone is so obsessed with authority and leadership. Get over yourselves.

Some folks may be obsessed and feel today's modern ministry is trying to be too intimidating.
Personally, I am obsessed with bringing the Full Ministry back into the picture, as it was for
the Church at Pentecost. The Church operated at its best because the Ministry was at its best!

Lip service was not good enough for men like Peter, John, and Paul.

KeptByTheWord · #4 01-18-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Some folks may be obsessed and feel today's modern ministry is trying to be too intimidating.
Personally, I am obsessed with bringing the Full Ministry back into the picture, as it was for
the Church at Pentecost. The Church operated at its best because the Ministry was at its best!

Lip service was not good enough for men like Peter, John, and Paul.

Amen!

KeptByTheWord · #5 01-18-2015, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante

Everyone is so obsessed with authority and leadership. Get over yourselves.

We are not obsessed with authority and leadership... unless you understand that we are seeking it out with all our hearts, and want - with all our hearts - the kind of leadership that built the early NT church.

Scott Pitta · #6 01-17-2015, 03:03 AM

I do obey my pastor, but he is no "dictator". He does not micro manage the lives of the members of the congregation. He is a nice guy who is underpaid. Most of my pastor friends are the same way.

I am not a pastor, but I am a Bible translator. No, I never use a Strong's concordance. Yes, I did take Greek on the college level. No, I do not have a favorite translation. For devotional purposes, I use a NIV.

I translate for fun. I translate for study. It requires a working understanding of semantics, textual criticism, Koine Greek, and a college professor to correct your work.

Be nice to your pastor and please be nice to the Bible translators.

Sean · #7 01-17-2015, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

I do obey my pastor, but he is no "dictator". He does not micro manage the lives of the members of the congregation. He is a nice guy who is underpaid. Most of my pastor friends are the same way.

I am not a pastor, but I am a Bible translator. No, I never use a Strong's concordance. Yes, I did take Greek on the college level. No, I do not have a favorite translation. For devotional purposes, I use a NIV.

I translate for fun. I translate for study. It requires a working understanding of semantics, textual criticism, Koine Greek, and a college professor to correct your work.

Be nice to your pastor and please be nice to the Bible translators.

Scott, if you care to, please take a quick peak at this site(5 min).....https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...BtsNAyDfxrOaHg

Abiding Now · #8 01-17-2015, 06:32 PM

I don't have an original 1611, but I do have this.

Scott Pitta · #9 01-18-2015, 06:53 AM

Sean,

I took a quick peak at the site you recommended. The KJV and the NIV are translated from different manuscript traditions. Therefore, the resulting translation is different.

Just for fun, compare how the NT quotes the OT. Lots of variations. Not all of them due to translating from one language to another. The situation is complex.

Have a great day of worship !!

FlamingZword · #10 01-18-2015, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Sean,

I took a quick peak at the site you recommended. The KJV and the NIV are translated from different manuscript traditions. Therefore, the resulting translation is different.

Just for fun, compare how the NT quotes the OT. Lots of variations. Not all of them due to translating from one language to another. The situation is complex.

Have a great day of worship !!

The KJV still has that fabricated Trinitarian verse 1 John 5:7
All modern bibles have already dumped that verse, it is time for the KJV to join the crowd and dump that inserted verse.