It's my position that the "leader" of a church has a huge responsibility to lead in the fear of God and according to the dictates and within the parameters of what the Word of God sets forth as the standard of leadership.
The "leader" ... the man who has been called of God to oversee an assembly of believers .... has an onus placed on him to not put yokes too heavy to bear on the people he shepherds and leads.
He is a "watchman on the wall" who has a burden and a directive to care for and oversee the flock of God in any given church.
He's also been given the responsibility to dictate and put into place the guidelines as he sees fit (as the under shepherd responsible to the Great Shepherd) .... and the parameters that he feels comfortable with .... as to how he will carry out his responsibilities. Then it is up to the people whether they will follow or not.
I was told by a very wise man many years ago that if a pastor provides a proper ... balanced diet then for the most part people will be content and won't stray too far away. If they are being loved and cared for, their spiritual needs being ministered to and they're receiving a healthy and nourishing diet re the Word of God as it's fed to them then they will put up with a lot of restriction.
Along with that we can't forget that people's consciences and convictions are formed and built around the teaching they receive. What may seem extreme to someone whose conscience and conviction has been established by lesser restriction ... seems normal to those raised with a tighter rein.
What is a "leader" after all if he doesn't do just that? Lead!
How one man leads may not be my cup of tea totally, but genuine love and care from a man of God for my soul would mean an AWFUL lot and whether or not I could wear a beard (if I were a man of course ) would pale in comparison and be a pretty moot consideration in whether or not I would want to stay where I was being cared for by an anointed man of God with a burden for souls - including my own!
So there you have it. There's more than one way to look at everything!
By the way ......... God bless you Bro. Epley!
Great post. Thanks.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Elder Epley - As you know - I have a goatee, wear gold and shorts sometimes, my wife has her hair trimmed at times and wears pants at times, she wears make up and jewelry.
I have sense enough to know - I am not going to come to your church and be accepted as a member. Most likely if I ever even visited - I would not wear a ring and would shave before I got there.
You have EVERY RIGHT as a Pastor and Shepard of that flock to watch over them and if you feel something to be a hindrance in their lives - to deal with that and if they are in opposition to it - show them, love them and if they do not submit - to put them out of the church.
You are the Bishop of your house and if they don't want to abide by the house rules - then they need to go somewhere else.
We would be considered by most on this forum to be "Charismatic" or liberal. But I can promise you one thing - we have house rules at Church Alive - just like any house that people live in. I am the Bishop & Father of the house and I lay down the house rules. There are folks that come in that don't like it - they can leave the same way they came in - I am not gonna change for anybody else! I am there to Father and Shepard a congregation and to bring them into maturity. It may not be as up to speed as yours - but it is not YOUR house - its the House God gave me RULE over!
Elder - You do what you have to do and require what you have to require. I would not expect you to serve me communion and if you did - I would be disappointed in you! I do love you and admire you and love to laugh with you. We simply do not agree doctrinally - I love you anyway. I don't think your going to hell for your stand on somethings or your lack of stand on others - It is NOT a heaven or hell issue. A Pastor has every right to require standards and boundaries for his people.
And another great post from a Pentecostal dictator.......NOT!
Yes, it is a great post, but you aren't a dictator....to clarify....LOL!
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
The mentaolity: "My church" "my saints" "it's his church" has cause many problems.
"the pastor of the church" would be foreign to the early church.
Actually, that isn't quite correct. Did they call them pastor? No. They called the Presbyters and they presided over the local domain or congregation.
I don't believe that Rev. Epley is correct in his approach to beards. However, he was elected as the Pastor of that particular assembly and it appears the "members" approve. If it is a problem for someone, it is probably only one of many and they wouldn't be happy there anyway. So it is best for them to go elsewhere. I certainly would. And both Rev. Epley and I would be happier for it!
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God is good!
May my life be a daily example of the redeeming power and the love of God
Elder Epley - As you know - I have a goatee, wear gold and shorts sometimes, my wife has her hair trimmed at times and wears pants at times, she wears make up and jewelry.
I have sense enough to know - I am not going to come to your church and be accepted as a member. Most likely if I ever even visited - I would not wear a ring and would shave before I got there.
You have EVERY RIGHT as a Pastor and Shepard of that flock to watch over them and if you feel something to be a hindrance in their lives - to deal with that and if they are in opposition to it - show them, love them and if they do not submit - to put them out of the church.
You are the Bishop of your house and if they don't want to abide by the house rules - then they need to go somewhere else.
We would be considered by most on this forum to be "Charismatic" or liberal. But I can promise you one thing - we have house rules at Church Alive - just like any house that people live in. I am the Bishop & Father of the house and I lay down the house rules. There are folks that come in that don't like it - they can leave the same way they came in - I am not gonna change for anybody else! I am there to Father and Shepard a congregation and to bring them into maturity. It may not be as up to speed as yours - but it is not YOUR house - its the House God gave me RULE over!
Elder - You do what you have to do and require what you have to require. I would not expect you to serve me communion and if you did - I would be disappointed in you! I do love you and admire you and love to laugh with you. We simply do not agree doctrinally - I love you anyway. I don't think your going to hell for your stand on somethings or your lack of stand on others - It is NOT a heaven or hell issue. A Pastor has every right to require standards and boundaries for his people.
Whats up with the "Father" stuff?
Do you practice closed communion?
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
The ladies in our church if they are going to be on the platform I want their hair up and the men to wear ties. There is no scriptural command for either but to me it looks nicer so they do it.
Am I a cultist if I:
Tell folks to turn to page 95 in the song book?
Tell folks we will have a prayer meeting on Monday night?
Tell folks we are having a workday Saturday and I want them there?
Tell folks service begins at 6 on Sunday Night?
Tell folks bring some visitors?
And the list goes on.
I am a leader that is what I do is to lead. Why is it only in church are leaders seen as cult leaders if they actually lead and expect folks to follow?
Elder, I know people will probably attack me for saying this, but you have my utmost respect for how you handle the sheep God has entrusted to you. God bless you sir!
Elder, I know people will probably attack me for saying this, but you have my utmost respect for how you handle the sheep God has entrusted to you. God bless you sir!
The most important underlying principle here is a simple thing called LOVE. It is hard for many libs to consider that what they percieve as a hardnose domineering ultra-con has or receives love. I dearly love the assembly I have been placed over by the Lord. The saints know I love them and it may be hard to understand they love me. If you asked them if I was hard nosed they would laugh out loud. Some no doubt think I should crack the whip more. I am not a whip cracker but when I do have to which is not very often yes they do know it has been cracked. But on this facial hair business I have NOT said:
1. It is a sin.............sin is a transgression of the law.
2. That someone will go to Hell for wearing it.
However in this assembly where I have been given charge I have made the decision which is in line with Apostolic precedent since the 60's that facial hair is NOT allowed on members and there it stands. I just think if the ladies are going to bear the cross of their appearance surely it does not hurt a man to shave.
A side note I have noticed many men when they backslide from Pentecostal churches one of the first things they do is to grow facial hair so to my simple mind that is telling.
However godly men such as Bishop Haywood & Bishop Johnson wore facial hair and I have no doubt to see them in Heaven. Of course both died before the 60's revolution.
I am amazed my lib comrades have come to my defence but though we disagree on most standards stuff they do understand the principle of leadership in society at large not just in the church. Leaders have to lead.
However in this assembly where I have been given charge I have made the decision which is in line with Apostolic precedent since the 60's that facial hair is NOT allowed on members and there it stands.
The thing is, Bro Epley, that it is archaic to think that way today, over 40 years after the fact. It reminds me of the archaic silly laws that still exist in some cities, such as how someone will go to jail if they leave their cow sitting in the horse's water trough by the saloon. This is what got the Amish where they are today.
The thing is, Bro Epley, that it is archaic to think that way today, over 40 years after the fact. It reminds me of the archaic silly laws that still exist in some cities, such as how someone will go to jail if they leave their cow sitting in the horse's water trough by the saloon. This is what got the Amish where they are today.
Elder Blume some of us are rooted in the past and wish we could have stayed there so we are taking it with us and make no apologies for it. Archaic it might be I will not argue but there am I ole archaic me. And I am happily archaic. I have not been impressed with very many so-called progressives in the last 40 years. Their path is not desirable to me. We speak a different language only a few words are the same. Dialouge is difficult at best. You know when the temple was built the young men shouted for joy because they had not seen Solomon's temple in it's beauty but the old men wept they remembered.
) would pale in comparison and be a pretty moot consideration in whether or not I would want to stay where I was being cared for by an anointed man of God with a burden for souls - including my own!
:thwa k
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