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  #51  
Old 02-11-2015, 09:05 AM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
any studies along these lines?
Have you rested from your works?
Only on the seventh day, or every day?
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  #52  
Old 02-11-2015, 09:11 AM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

The sabbath is shown spiritually as follows:

1Pe 4:1-2 KJV Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; (2) That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.


Ceasing form our works is losing salvation by works, for one thing, and also brings cessation from sin. This is true because self making self holy is only going to backfire and make us sin, as Paul described in Romans 7. Romans 7:21 says when we would do good in our human power without God's help, evil is present with us. It's all about grace. We need to cease from our own works.
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  #53  
Old 02-11-2015, 02:22 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

Well I've said all I'm going to say on the subject. Since we're down to just repeating claims there really is no point.

Sister Alvear if you have questions I will gladly answer them though you will probably get all the info you need from your contact you mentioned earlier.
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  #54  
Old 02-11-2015, 06:22 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Well I've said all I'm going to say on the subject. Since we're down to just repeating claims there really is no point.

Sister Alvear if you have questions I will gladly answer them though you will probably get all the info you need from your contact you mentioned earlier.
No one ever exgeted the verses in Galatians differently in response. Can you provide us with what the exegesis is if not what I stated?
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  #55  
Old 02-11-2015, 08:37 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Christians keeping sabbath in post apostolic period:

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/sabbath-history.html
Thank you for that link, however this article only scratches the surface on Sabbath keeping churches, there is a whole lot more of historical material.
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  #56  
Old 02-11-2015, 08:42 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

Great articles keep on coming up with them.
they are great teaching tools for teaching the Sabbath, God's day.
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  #57  
Old 02-11-2015, 08:47 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

Gal 3:23-4:11 says it all.
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  #58  
Old 02-11-2015, 08:57 PM
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Gal 3:23-4:11 says it all.
Galatians 3:23-24, clearly tells us that that Law was our school master to teach us the basic principles of the faith.

When a person learns in 1st grade that 1 + 1 is equal to 2 that is a principle that stands forever.

just because in the future a person goes to college and learns algebra does not make invalid the fact that 1+1 = 2

the Law taught us the Sabbath and the proper way to keep it, we have graduated to Christ, but that does not mean that the Ten Commandments are thrown into the trash, otherwise Jesus would have instructed his Apostles to burn the Old Testament and start again brand new.

No Jesus used the Old Testament to teach the Apostles everything about him, the early church used the Old Testament to teach about Christ.

if everything preceding Christ is not longer valid, then we need to do like the heretic Marcion, who rejected the Old Testament and only believed in some of the New Testament documents.

Come on those who reject the Old Testament, get a match and start burning the Old Testament pages of your Bible.
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  #59  
Old 02-12-2015, 02:05 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
Gal 3:23-4:11 says it all.
Ok, one final post lol.

I will make a few points about the passage you referenced.

1. It does not "say it all" as if there is no need for the rest of scripture. We must take the entirety of scripture as the authority, not one passage. Especially a passage in one of Paul's epistles which according to Peter contain things "hard to understand" and which the unlearned misunderstand to their detriment.

2. You ended your citation at verse 11. But verse 12 contains an important concludibg point: Paul says "Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am, for I am as you are, ye have not injured me at all." Paul requests the Galatians to be as he was. Paul often set himself forth as an example to be imitated, as an example of apostolic Christianity. So, did Paul keep the Sabbath, or no? http://www.logosapostolic.org/bible_...SabbathDay.htm

3. The context of the epistle is not Sabbath-keeping, but Judaising. Chapter 4 verse 21, chapter 5 verse 2, chapter 3 verses 1-13, the entirety of chapter 2, and the first half of chapter 1, indeed the entire epistle, is about being justified by grace through faith in Christ vs. being justified by the works of the law. Chapter 5 teaches the importance of walking in the Spirit as opposed to walking in the flesh. Chapter 6 concludes with the same theme of justification under the new covenant by faith vs. justification by the works of the law, and the conclusion is "in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."

These are themes mirrored in Romans and elsewhere. Romans 6 - 8 deals with the same dichotomy, and includes the following teachings: Christians are to walk in newness of life (6:4), so that we do not sin (6:6-7, 11-14), that being "not under the law" means sin will not rule in us (6:14), that because we are not under law but under grace we are nevertheless not to sin (6:15), and that the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in those walk according the Spirit (8:4). Further, we read in 7:7 that the law is not sin, that the law is spiritual (7:14), holy, just, and good (7:12), that it is the carnal mind which is not submitted to the law of God(8:7) and such disobedient people do not please God (8:8).

Further still, we read in Galatians 5:6 "in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith which works by love. In 1Corinthians 7:19 Paul says "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing" and tells us what is: " but the keeping of the commandments of God". And in Romans this thought is likewise explained thus: "Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision, if it fulfill the law judge thee who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law ? For he is not a Jew which is one outwardly, nor is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter whose praise is not of men but of God. (Romans 2:26-29)

Therefore it would be error to conclude Paul's teaching in Galatians to mean we can transgress God's law. Paul made it clear that being under the law, being a Jew, being circumcised, was irrelevant. Instead, what matters is being in Christ, under grace, a new creature, where faith works by love, where the righteousness of the law is kept by the Spirit, where it is fulfilled, where the commandments of God are kept. The dichotomy is not between obedience to the commandments as opposed to being in Christ under grace. Rather it is between being disobedient regardless if one is a Jew or Gentile as opposed to being obedient through the Spirit by faith because of grace, regardless whether one is a Jew or Gentile.

4. Galatians 4:8-9 indicate the Galatians were previously pagans, and were returning to pagan observances of "days, months, times, and years" (v. 10). These cannot be the Biblical feasts because these are the "elements of the world" that they were previously in bondage to as pagans. This is the same terminology Paul used in Colossians, referring to pagan superstitions about "elements of the world", which were viewed by Jewisu Gnostics as elemental beings or emanations of the Divine Essence manifesting as angelic orders which needed to be venerated at appropriate times. The problem in Galatia was essentially the same as in Colossae: Judaizing gnostic heretics subverting the gospel by requiring circumcision as well as syncretistic "mystery religion" elements, ascetic practices, etc. The phrase "days, months, times, and years" describes a pagan calendar, not the biblical calendar. http://www.truthontheweb.org/whyfeast.htm

So, in conclusion, Paul is arguing against those who promote conversion to Judaism - becoming a Jew via circumcision - as necessary to salvation. He is NOT arguing against obedience to God's commandments, but against justification by works.

Obeying the commandments of God is not the opposite of justification by grace through faith, otherwise Christians would be expected to sin as evidence of their faith!
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Biblical Worship - free pdf http://www.pdf-archive.com/2016/02/21/biblicalworship4/

Conditional immortality proven - https://ia800502.us.archive.org/3/it...surrection.pdf

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  #60  
Old 02-12-2015, 07:35 AM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: Sabbeth Keepers

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Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Those who claim "what day you have church is irrelevent" always coincidentally decide on sunday, the great catholic holy day. Funny how that happens....
To be fair, it's so deeply rooted into our culture, it doesn't make much sense to change it to another day if we do indeed believe the specific day is irrelevant (which I do). It's not about the RCC in any way, shape or form, it's about our culture. You can argue that Sunday worship was effected by the RCC, but that doesn't mean we are following them just because we use the same day.

Cause and effect, brother, cause and effect. Not effect and cause.
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