Why I Am A Futurist

[shazeep]

well, that was for Sean, who reads literally...but since you answered, i will ask what you think the first "dying" means, in "dying, you will die."

[Sean]

I think that the death process was both spiritual(immediate separation from God during the expulsion from the garden, which we see in Gen), coupled with the physical death process.(over time)

If Adam and Eve would have died physically that day, then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Therefore, it is speaking of a spiritual death, regarding the day they sinned.(obviously)


Look at this....Ezekiel 18:20

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


A soul can actually die....our soul is part of us.....our soul desires to sin and our body acts on that sin....God desroys both soul and body into hell....

Matthew 10:28

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The body and soul are connected together on earth for all the living.

When we sin, the soul is separated from fellowship with God in spiritual death and the body eventually follows suit.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Sean

I think that the death process was both spiritual(immediate separation from God during the expulsion from the garden, which we see in Gen), coupled with the physical death process.(over time)

If Adam and Eve would have died physically that day, then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Therefore, it is speaking of a spiritual death, regarding the day they sinned.(obviously)


Look at this....Ezekiel 18:20

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


A soul can actually die....our soul is part of us.....our soul desires to sin and our body acts on that sin....God desroys both soul and body into hell....

Matthew 10:28

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The body and soul are connected together on earth for all the living.

When we sin, the soul is separated from fellowship with God in spiritual death and the body eventually follows suit.

Sean, your statements are sheer nonsense, to state it politely!

The word "Spiritual," IMHO, can be defined as having a "mind-set" towards God, and

Death is best defined as an event from which there is NO possible hope for recovery, EXCEPT by an act of God who holds ALL power.

When anyone "assumes" that Adam and Eve experienced "spiritual death" when the sentence of death was imposed upon their physical BODIES (NOT their SOULS - read Genesis 3:19 very carefully), then they are imposing a penalty for their act of willful disobedience against God's commandment that is even more severe than God's, and in that process, are, in essence, sentencing them to an eternal hell!

There is absolutely NOTHING which states, or even insinuates in any manner whatsoever, that God imposed a penalty of "spiritual death" upon either Adam or Eve! In fact, seeing that there exists NOTHING within the entire Bible that tells us WHO instructed Cain and Abel to offer a sacrifice to God upon an altar as an atonement for their sins, then we simply MUST conclude that they were so instructed by their parents! And THAT is something which neither ADAM or EVE could have been capable of doing if they experienced a "spiritual death"!

Oh! How I wish that we as Spirit filled Apostolic Pentecostals would ONLY pause and consider the implications of the things which we publicly publish as "if" it were truth, when just a little time expended in researching a matter would make all the difference, such as I've noted herein regarding the widely accepted "allegation" that Adam and Eve experienced a "spiritual death"!

[Sean]

Lafon, "spiritual death" is another word for "spiritual separation" from God.

I guess you consider the drug addict, athiest or prostitute "spiritually alive?"

Ephesians 2

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;(how were these people dead?...Spiritually or physically?)
(Are the children of Adam and Eve part of this "dead" group also, including Adam and Eve themselves?)
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.(I say spiritually dead, not physically dead....how say you?)




Notice the word "quickened" above.....


Full Definition of QUICKEN

transitive verb
1
a : to make alive : revive
b : to cause to be enlivened

[Sean]

If you need a FULL bible study on how sinners are dead in their sins(spiritually, not physically) until Jesus quickens them, just let me know!

[Sean]

When anyone "assumes" that Adam and Eve experienced "spiritual death" when the sentence of death was imposed upon their physical BODIES (NOT their SOULS - read Genesis 3:19 very carefully) Quote LAFON





If the day that Adam and Eve sinned caused them to die "physically", then we are not here, because they had no offspring yet...LOL


Unless you are of the camp that think God exaggerated(Lied) to them about dying the same day.....


Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Sean

I guess you consider the drug addict, athiest or prostitute "spiritually alive?"

I gave you MY opinion, even specifically stating it as such.

I did NOT make any statement which impugned your integrity in any manner whatsoever!

DO NOT presume to tell me what I think, as your statement implies!

I am just about one step away from doing something I've only done to one other member of this forum, and that is "ignore you" altogether so I will not have to be subjected to all of your childish, immature antics!

[Sean]

Thats fine Lafon, your opinion is noted.

If you "ignore" me you will miss out on all the fun!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Romans 5:12 says death came by sin. That means the fruit had the remedy for sin and death before they sinned. That's why the life instead of death is only mentioned after they sinned.

Not sure I follow you. Are you saying they were created immortal, sinned and lost it, and the tree of life was for restorative purposes?

If they had not sinned, they would have lived forever WITHOUT eating of the tree of life?

I'm not sure I see that from the text in Romans as being a necessary inference. Could it not mean death came by sin because they were barred from the tree of life as punishment for sin?

[shazeep]