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  #181  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:47 PM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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This is an old article, but pretty good.

With 8 million illegal aliens in the United States and 1,062,279 apprehensions in 2002 this policy does not seem to be working. Another important issue is the implied powerless of the illegal alien. The growing Hispanic population and the increasing number of illegal aliens with legal ties has a direct relationship to this perception. In addition, other participants in the general environment, such as politicians and religious groups, have a vested interest in not enforcing interior immigration laws. Such groups stand to receive benefits from a larger alien population--one for votes, the other for potential converts. The implied powerlessness may be a strategic attempt to soften the impact of an amnesty program. Skerry compares the two perspectives of the illegal living in the shadows contrasted by those that are more vocal about their plight. In his opinion, the latter is a more accurate characterization. (Skerry, 2001) More recently, advocates compared the plight of illegal aliens to the civil rights movement and organized an immigrant worker’s freedom ride to rally support. Found at http://www.immigrantworkersfreedomride.com/default.asp
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  #182  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:51 PM
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I don't agree with all of this, but it's something to think about.

By Jim R. Schwiesow

November 9, 2006
NewsWithViews.com

“The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government.” --Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1953 *

Mr. Eisenhower was stating that, which most Americans overlook when they consider illegal immigration. Americans are, by nature, a compassionate lot. They have demonstrated that fact time and time again by their outpouring of generosity to the victims of natural disasters in the poorer countries throughout the world. The political phonies who populate the congress, and that chief political phony, George Bush, have exploited this propensity to a sympathetic nature, and played American citizens like a fiddle when it comes to proposals to stop illegal immigration.

Former President Eisenhower very adroitly compartmentalized the real reason for the wink, wink approach to illegal immigration by the politicians, the corporate bigwigs, the industrial and agricultural complex, and business groups, such as the National Chamber of Commerce. And that reason is simply greed, a greed unrecognized by normally adjusted people who are not possessed of money-grubbing psyches.

Of course being politicians and exploiters the members of the aforementioned groups are blessed with a guile and deceitfulness, which enables them to lie with sincerity and to deviate from the truth with the convincing adeptness of a sociopath. Their lies are cloaked with elaborate rhetoric and decorative language. They talk of Ellis Island and of the taking in the tired and the hungry of the world until it makes even the stronger of stomach retch. When they have reached the limit with this compassionate verbalize, they transition, with slick oiliness, into a series of well-worn perversions of the truth. Foremost among these prevarications is the silly pronouncement that illegals are a boon to the economy, and that their removal from the country would cause great economic hardship.

The only hardship that these ********** are concerned with is that, which would accrue to their material well-being should illegal immigrants be removed from the scene. The corporate and business kingpins would have to allocate some of their inordinate and obscene earnings for decent wages and benefits for legitimate American workers, and the politicians would be deprived of the money, from these same corporate and business kingpins, which enables them to sustain a lifetime tenure in congress where they can partake of the perks and favors bestowed upon them by the grateful special interest groups who purchase their votes. As to their silly delusive contention that to remove the illegals from the economy would cause economic hardship for American citizens, consider the following:
The Number of illegal aliens currently in this country is, 20,556,000

The amount of money taken out of the American economy and transferred to Mexico is, $24,279,150,000.

The cost to Americans taxpayers for social services to illegal immigrants is, $397,478,602,693.

The number of offspring of illegal immigrants enrolled in public schools K thru 12 is, 3,820,394

The cost to American taxpayers for the educating of the offspring of illegal immigrants K thru 12 is, $14,761,164,588.

The number of illegal immigrants incarcerated for crimes that they committed on American soil is, 321,271

The cost to American taxpayers for the incarceration of illegal immigrant criminals is, $1,471,104,488.

The number of illegal immigrant fugitives from justice, most of whom are in Mexico, which refuses to extradite even the most vile of killers is, 630,218
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  #183  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:53 PM
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Charlie Brown Charlie Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
Taken from www.cis.org/articles/2005/back605.html

Senators John McCain and Edward Kennedy recently unveiled a major bipartisan immigration proposal backed by a coalition of business, labor, and ethnic organizations. Unfortunately, this plan, like other suggested immigration plans (including President Bush's) is based on a false premise: Since the federal government can't quickly deport the 10-12 million illegal aliens, the only alternative is legalization -- i.e., amnesty.

But there is a third way that rejects this false choice, and it is the only approach that can actually work: Shrink the illegal population through consistent, across-the-board enforcement of the immigration law. By deterring the settlement of new illegals, by increasing deportations to the extent possible, and, most importantly, by increasing the number of illegals already here who give up and deport themselves, the United States can bring about an annual decrease in the illegal-alien population, rather than allowing it to continually increase. The point, in other words, is not merely to curtail illegal immigration, but rather to bring about a steady reduction in the total number of illegal immigrants who are living in the United States. The result would be a shrinking of the illegal population to a manageable nuisance, rather than today's looming crisis.

This is analogous to the approach a corporation might take to downsizing a bloated workforce: a hiring freeze, some layoffs, plus new incentives to encourage excess workers to leave on their own.
The only problem I see with this is that it would cost billions to catch and deport every illegal immigrant. Also, many jobs that we USA folks are too proud to do are done by illegals. I think the wiser choice is to allow for them to register for a green card, SSN, and license locally, and make them work towards permanent citizenship.. Most immigrants WANT citizenship. They would register. And when that happened, they would then become part of the solution to our ever growing deficit. It would put them into a database, and they could be monitored much easier until they reach their citizenship. It could also be adopted that if they have any problems with the law during their temporary status, and would be deported for good.
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  #184  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:53 PM
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crakjak crakjak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Brown View Post
Those that are illegal do NOT pay any federal income tax. Of Course they do stimulate the local economy some with their buying of goods, but federally they do nothing but take.
What many do not know is that most illegals have fake SS cards and employers withhold income taxes as well as SS and Medicare out of their wages. The feds know what is fake and what is not, but they just continue to suck in the withholding and do nothing about the illegal status.
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  #185  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:55 PM
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400 BILLION dollars in social services to Illegal aliens? PP is that really accurate?

do you realize what that number would be if they were legal?
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  #186  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:58 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
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Many illegals are paid under the table and don't pay taxes. Come on...if the employer can get away with paying them peanuts, why would have put it on paper so he can get in trouble for paying people less than minimum?
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  #187  
Old 06-02-2007, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak View Post
What many do not know is that most illegals have fake SS cards and employers withhold income taxes as well as SS and Medicare out of their wages. The feds know what is fake and what is not, but they just continue to suck in the withholding and do nothing about the illegal status.
I have friends that are illegal. They work at a Mexican Restaurant, and are paid a very small wage with cash. There are very many illegals that do this, as the owner owns quite a few stores. They have their illegal status held over them by the legal Mexican owner, and he works them many hours, paying them less than minimum wage. If it wasn't for the fact that they would get into trouble, I would report this jerk every day until something was done.
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  #188  
Old 06-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
400 BILLION dollars in social services to Illegal aliens? PP is that really accurate?

do you realize what that number would be if they were legal?
I'm just quoting the article. I have no idea. The numbers are unreal.
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  #189  
Old 06-02-2007, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve View Post
And I'm no Nazi, bigot, skinhead or racist. I'm simply for enforcing the laws of the land and stopping ILLEGAL immigration.

I'm not against LEGAL immigration.
Before that can happen we must get rid of a corrupt government !


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Oppressive Government
There is no entity that is more obnoxious than government. No entity kills more. No entity plunders more. No one entity violates more individual rights more often, with more impunity. And none spews more propaganda and lies. History proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Be it a monarchy, oligarchy, union of socialist republics, or a communist Nation-State like the people's republic of china, you can rest assured that a big powerful government will be the bane of Liberty every time. It has always been this way. Government must be checked. Bureaucrats must be resisted. They must be over-ruled. Thomas Jefferson once said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure".

Often people think that government corruption involves certain government employees (or elected officials) breaking the law, taking bribes, or wrongfully issuing special favors to select individuals or cliques to promote their own career. To an extent, this is government corruption, but such activity only scratches the surface. It represents a small fraction of the real corruption going on. The most egregious corruption originates right in plain view in the halls of legislature. It happens routinely now, it's just that most people don't recognize it.

Rest assured that if the founders of this country saw how Congress -- with assistance and acquiescence from the judicial and executive branches -- has destroyed liberty and justice; if they were to witness the current government's utter disregard and overt contempt for individual human rights, they would be calling for revolution in a big way. The founders were not fond of tyranny. The problem with having a revolution now is that the people have forgotten the virtues of liberty, justice, and rights. A revolution wouldn't accomplish anything unless more people understand and desire a return to the principles on which this country was founded.

A corrupt government is one that extends unlawful jurisdiction over the people it is supposed to protect. A corrupt government is one that legislates beyond its rightful power by erecting laws that do injury to liberty, justice, and individual rights. A corrupt government believes that might makes right, and that its mission is to curtail freedom, regulate every aspect of personal and financial affairs, and tax the populace into submission while falsely claiming it is acting in their best interest.

The Constitution of the United States was ordained with the primary object being the defense of Liberty. This can be achieved by limiting the government's scope of power. In the Constitution, specific powers are delegated to three distinct branches of government: The legislative (Congress), the administrative or executive (Presidency), and the judicial (Courts and Jurors). Congress can only create laws in the pursuance of liberty -- in pursuance of the Constitution. And two conditions must be met: #1 Jurisdiction must exist and #2, Congressional act(s) must not violate the rights of any individual citizen(s). If both of the conditions are not met, any anti-constitutional decree Congress might install is not valid. It should not be enforced (gun control legislation comes to mind)! An example of a violation of a person's rights would be a tax levied that involves taking things (like money) from one citizen or group and giving it to another (several anti-constitutional acts come to mind such as farm subsidies, social security, and foreign aid). These Congressional boondoggles violate the right to due process and just compensation.

"Crime fighting" power, as is the case with war power, is the most noxious and abused power a government can exercise. The founding fathers knew this. The scope of Federal "crime fighting" jurisdiction is extremely limited. For example, in Article 1 section 8 paragraph 7, Congress is granted jurisdiction "to establish post offices and post roads", and in paragraph 10, "to define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and against the law of nations." However, Janet Reno and her minions pretend not to know this. Note that it took an amendment to Constitution to prohibit alcohol, which, not coincidentally, was a disastrous anti-constitutional measure that had to be abandoned later due to the huge increase in real crime that it spawned. Crime fighting power within high tide lines is reserved to the individual States and to the people as jurors.
Congress lacks jurisdiction to subsidize businesses and individuals through confiscatory tax schemes. See Amendment V. Jurists (judges) can nix laws that violate the Constitution and jurors (common folk) can nullify bad laws/prosecutions that violate the conscience. We have a Bill of Rights as an additional check to protect the Liberty of the Citizens and the sovereignty of the States. At the inception of the USA, the citizens of the several states, and their posterity, were assured a maximum amount of Liberty. There was no other nation on earth that offered more freedom than the USA. This brought peace and prosperity as never seen before in history. The federal government must uphold the rights of the people. It must not usurp the just powers of the states. Congress and the executive branch are bound by the Constitution. Every citizen is guaranteed liberty and justice here. We can't be subjugated. We people; we commoners give the government its just powers. It operates at our consent.



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  #190  
Old 06-02-2007, 08:50 PM
CupCake
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But Not A Democracy

Many people think that what makes our country great is that we are a democracy. Well, this isn't a democracy. The USA is a union of autonomous Republics. But there is nothing inherently good about either form of government. There are bad republics. There are bad democracies. There are bad dictatorships and bad monarchies. What makes the US unique is that we have a limited form of government. We have a government whose power can't lawfully extend beyond that which has been expressly delegated to it. I'll repeat myself. If the Constitution doesn't expressly give jurisdiction to the federal government over a certain subject, it may not act on it. Note that the Constitution had to be amended in order to punish people who traded in alcohol. We have a Constitution with checks, balances, and limitations on all branches of government. It may seem a novel concept to many, but we citizens have powerful tools at our disposal that can stop statist tyrants dead (in some cases literally) in their tracks. We're guaranteed the right to be tried by a jury of fellow citizens; by a jury of our peers empowered to judge both fact and law. The government will not tell you this. They in fact blatantly lie about it. But the Supreme Court, every time the issue is brought in front of it, reaffirms that we citizens, as jurors, hold final veto power on any and all arbitrary laws/regulations/prosecutions. And as noted by Alexander Hamilton in Federalist Paper #83, "trial by jury is a safeguard against an oppressive exercise of the power of taxation". You heard that right. There are no second-class citizens in the US. No government official can carry a title of nobility. The government cannot suspend the right to petition for a Writ of Habeas Corpus in times of peace. Congress can pass no bills of attainder.

Citizens are Guaranteed due process if the government acts against them. With minor exceptions (mainly military and maritime jurisdiction), the Common Law is the only nationally recognized form of law. We have a right to speak our mind without fear of retribution from the government. Private property is protected. The government must return just compensation if it dispossess a citizen while in pursuit of public goals. The right to bear arms is nearly absolute. Government employees must obtain a search warrant from a judge in order to shake down a free citizen. And even then, a warrant must be obtained from a judge specifying precisely who, where, why, and how a search will take place, and exactly what is being searched for. All rights and powers not expressly delegated to national government, including those not listed in the Constitution, belong to the states and people (amendments 9 & 10). I could go on, but I would be talking about the ways things are meant to be -- not how they are now.

Today, most of us are Subjects of a corrupt government. Many are involved knee deep in it. But we are not powerless. We, in fact, should not allow the government to act wrongfully against us. Most people don't even realize how far off course our government has strayed. We can light the torch of Liberty again. But we won't do it at the polls. It won't be done via legislative actions. It won't be accomplished by way of executive order/decree. Politicians and bureaucrats do not deliver Liberty, they take it! More people are beginning to understand this. It will probably take less than ten percent of us to stand tall, exercise, demand, and reaffirm our absolute right to judge both fact AND LAW in order to restore liberty and Justice. When enough are educated of this power, the Torch of Liberty will begin to shine bright again. Failure to exercise this fundamental right has brought us where we are today.

If a law doesn't fit, you must acquit! That includes tax code prosecutions as well as excessively punitive and anti-constitutional "crime fighting" legislation. We do not need to wait for a ruling from a judge to nix an unjust prosecution. We do not need to wait for the "right" politicians to erect the "right" legislation to take back our inalienable rights. We people are the ultimate check against despotic government authoritarians. Effective use of trial by jury is deadly to government bureaucrats, politicians, and their henchman. It's a highly efficient and bloodless form of rebellion. Shall we take back our Liberty now?
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