The Effects of A Loud Shout | Raul Alvear Jr. :)

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

First of all, please provide the Scripture that says or teaches the bolded part.

Secondly, please consider this: IF the Word of God says JESUS CHRIST IS GOD ALMIGHTY, and a person says 'Jesus is not GOD ALMIGHTY', then does it not follow (according to your judgment as quoted and bolded above) that such a person's worship of God is not acceptable to God, and is in fact merely noise that will just be added to the screams of the damned as they are cast into the lake of fire?

Just wondering.

You've obviously decided to pick a fight with me over our differences. You seem to be on a crusade, if your posts and disparaging comments are any indication. Rattle your rapier all you want. I beat my sword into a plowshare long ago.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You've obviously decided to pick a fight with me over our differences. You seem to be on a crusade, if your posts and disparaging comments are any indication. Rattle your rapier all you want. I beat my sword into a plowshare long ago.

But for anyone else reading, who would like to know the answer to your first question, take a read through Malachi.

God even tells the people that He'd rather have the doors to the temple locked, than to allow them to continue to make offerings to Him according to their own design--which means there is a right way to worship (inspired by God through His Word, as led by the Spirit) and a wrong way (inspired by the flesh through carnal lusts, as led by human emotions).

Nadab and Abihu made a choice (in their heart as the center of conscious activity) to kindle a fire their own way in order to go into the tent of meeting and offer praise to God at the altar of incense. It was summarily rejected and God killed them without mercy, for not following the strict mandates of His Word.

They relied upon their own ingenuity and ability to make a fire which they believed was reasonable enough to give to God and use in worship, and they paid for that mistake with their lives.

They have been a shining example to all since then up until now, that there is a wrong way to worship, a way that is man-centered in that the motivation and desire to offer God worship comes from the flesh of man.

Even in David's triumph, he found defeat, when God broke through and killed Uzzah for touching the ark. And why? The worship was unacceptable because it wasn't being offered according to the Word of God, meaning the Spirit had no part in inspiring it, for if the Spirit had actually inspired what they were attempting to do to worship God, the Spirit would have told them to not do anything until some consecrated Levites could be summoned to carry the ark back to Jerusalem.

They didn't realize their error until after God ended a man. They then went back to the Scriptures to see what they should have done from the beginning, and the Holy Spirit got involved and the worship was accepted before the Lord.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

But for anyone else reading, who would like to know the answer to your first question, take a read through Malachi.

God even tells the people that He'd rather have the doors to the temple locked, than to allow them to continue to make offerings to Him according to their own design--which means there is a right way to worship (inspired by God through His Word, as led by the Spirit) and a wrong way (inspired by the flesh through carnal lusts, as led by human emotions).

Nadab and Abihu made a choice (in their heart as the center of conscious activity) to kindle a fire their own way in order to go into the tent of meeting and offer praise to God at the altar of incense. It was summarily rejected and God killed them without mercy, for not following the strict mandates of His Word.

They relied upon their own ingenuity and ability to make a fire which they believed was reasonable enough to give to God and use in worship, and they paid for that mistake with their lives.

They have been a shining example to all since then up until now, that there is a wrong way to worship, a way that is man-centered in that the motivation and desire to offer God worship comes from the flesh of man.

Even in David's triumph, he found defeat, when God broke through and killed Uzzah for touching the ark. And why? The worship was unacceptable because it wasn't being offered according to the Word of God, meaning the Spirit had no part in inspiring it, for if the Spirit had actually inspired what they were attempting to do to worship God, the Spirit would have told them to not do anything until some consecrated Levites could be summoned to carry the ark back to Jerusalem.

They didn't realize their error until after God ended a man. They then went back to the Scriptures to see what they should have done from the beginning, and the Holy Spirit got involved and the worship was accepted before the Lord.

Another good example is King Ahaz, who had a replica of a pagan altar built and placed in the temple in order that--not to offer pagan sacrifices, but rather, that the sacrifices due YHWH according to God's Word, should be offered.

Again, this is an example of a person doing the right thing (offering sacrifices by fire to God on an altar) in the wrong way, because human and not divine inspiration was behind it all. Ahaz met an ignoble end, and wasn't even mourned when they tossed his carcass into a commoner's grave.

[KeptByTheWord]

Good posts, Votive.

I might add... the very first example in scripture of a sacrifice offered to God, was by two men who both wanted to please God, but one was accepted, and the other not. God accepted Abel's sacrifice because it was with blood, but he did not accept Cain's sacrifice because it was not done according to what God wanted.

We must beware that in our praise offering up to God, that we are offering up what is pleasing and acceptable to God... and not just what we "think" God wants ... or man wants to see...

Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We must worship God in spirit, and in truth. That is far more important than the decibel level of our voice. And while the decibel level of our voice may be raised... it is not that which determines if we are praising.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We must worship God in spirit, and in truth.

And we must worship God "in spirit" and in "truth" because God is Spirit, and God is true. Our worship must reflect not just who we are worshiping, but what God is, in our worship.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You've obviously decided to pick a fight with me over our differences. You seem to be on a crusade, if your posts and disparaging comments are any indication. Rattle your rapier all you want. I beat my sword into a plowshare long ago.

I am not picking a fight. I am asking for clarification: if Jesus Christ is God, and one worships him as "not God", then is that worship not totally unacceptable to God?

As for my first question, you seem to imply that any sincere praise of God originating in the heart of a believer is strange fire and cursed by God unless it is an immediate inspiration of the Spirit. I asked for the scripture that says what you said, that is all.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

And we must worship God "in spirit" and in "truth" because God is Spirit, and God is true. Our worship must reflect not just who we are worshiping, but what God is, in our worship.

Right! So if Jesus Christ is not himself God, then we Oneness folks who worship him as God Almighty incarnate are not offering acceptable worship. We are no better than Samaritans who know not what we worship. Right?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Good posts, Votive.

I might add... the very first example in scripture of a sacrifice offered to God, was by two men who both wanted to please God, but one was accepted, and the other not. God accepted Abel's sacrifice because it was with blood, but he did not accept Cain's sacrifice because it was not done according to what God wanted.

We must beware that in our praise offering up to God, that we are offering up what is pleasing and acceptable to God... and not just what we "think" God wants ... or man wants to see...

Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We must worship God in spirit, and in truth. That is far more important than the decibel level of our voice. And while the decibel level of our voice may be raised... it is not that which determines if we are praising.

Where is the scripture that states what you said regarding Can and Abel's sacrifices?

Seems to me Abel's offering was accepted because it was offered by faith in contrast to Cain's. Therefore it wasn't what they offered that made the difference so much as the presence or lack of faith.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Some of you have accusations that imply others here are against praise and worship. I don't see anyone doing that.

CC1 at least seemed to imply any loud vociferous praise was unnecessary, foolish, and undesirable. We took it from there.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Where is the scripture that states what you said regarding Can and Abel's sacrifices?

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

This scripture says nothing about his lack of faith, but seems to be referring to complete disregard for the word of God that they were supposed to do.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Seems to me Abel's offering was accepted because it was offered by faith in contrast to Cain's. Therefore it wasn't what they offered that made the difference so much as the presence or lack of faith.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Lack of obedience and lack of faith both were at fault, according to these scriptures.