Changing To Preterism from Rapture Doctrine

[good samaritan]

No I don't doubt Satan being bound in regard to the church, but my doubts is if this is the same being bound that is represented in revelation when he is thrown into the pit for a thousand years.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Surely you read this:

Rev 20:7 KJV And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Yes, that is what I meant about him being unrestrained. I may be understanding you wrong, but I am taking it that Rev. 20 is past tense to you. I am just trying to get caught up.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Yes, that is what I meant about him being unrestrained. I may be understanding you wrong, but I am taking it that Rev. 20 is past tense to you. I am just trying to get caught up.

No problem. Most of Rev 20 is current tense. The future tense is the loosing and the white throne.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Very good, but not enough.

We say more than that is associated with Jerusalem's destruction. The vials, seals, trumpets and thunders.

Moses even foretold it.

Deu 31:16-21 KJV And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. (17) Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? (18) And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. (19) Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. (20) For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant. (21) And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.

It's the song of Moses in Revelation 15.

The following all happened in AD70.

Deu 28:55-57 KJV So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates. (56) The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter, (57) And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

From way back in Levi and Deut., God foretold the wrath upon Israel for rejecting Jesus.

And LEv 26 shows 4 sets of 7-fold judgments.

Lev 26:18 KJV And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Lev_26:21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.

Lev_26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

Lev_26:28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

7 Seals, 7 trumpets, 7 thunders and 7 vials.

Israel was under law and curse of Law can only come on those under Law. Revelation cannot apply to other nations.

Law is written to those under Law.

At the giving of the Law there were thunders, trumpets, voices and earthquake and smoke. You see these in Revelation since it is the judgment from that Law upon Israel, no one else. Why? Law is only written to those under Law.



Amen. But even in numbers of deaths the population of the world in contrast shows a greater percentage than World War II and the Jews' deaths.



Again, far more prophecies shows AD70 judgment than what you're willing believe. And that puts far more wrath in the bible under the canopy of the judgment on Israel for the cross and violation of Law in ways historicism does not appreciate.

Are you offering me a game of Bible ping-pong? lol

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Are you offering me a game of Bible ping-pong? lol

No, you asked about how historicism is not as focused on the cross as preterism, after I said no other view focuses on the cross like preterism does. So I am showing you most every other reference to doom and gloom in the bible ALSO points to the same judgment you agree was meted on Israel for the cross and rejection of Christ. But those judgments you do not agree point to AD70. That proves my claim that preterism focuses more on the cross in terms of judgment in the word than any other view..

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No problem. Most of Rev 20 is current tense. The future tense is the loosing and the white throne.

gotcha.

[mfblume]

I came to this view while studying the cross, without any intention of considering various prophetic views.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

gotcha.

Just so you know, I see the resurrection taking us straight to the white throne, just as 1 Cor 15 says the end comes when the resurrection occurs at the coming of Christ, without any millennium afterward or any tribulation. Future Millennium and future tribulation are from people who cannot follow Revelation properly and fail to notice Jesus and the Apostles said those things are not future. Even sinners rise int he resurrection of damnation and the unjust at the same time.

Joh 5:29 KJV And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Act 24:15 KJV And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


Dispensationalists have a problem with 1 Cor 15, for they think the rapture of the church is not the COMING OF THE LORD. But 1 Cor 15 says the resurrection occurs AT THIS COMING.

[Cracker Barrel]

Peeps, you r witnessing a full fledge seduction of honest hearted people to one of the most damnable doctrines on the face of the earth. Preterism !!!!!
This is not Apostolic Friends these are sharks with strong doctrine.
Bruda e ao o pau poʻo, pau hiʻu ia manō.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No, you asked about how historicism is not as focused on the cross as preterism, after I said no other view focuses on the cross like preterism does. So I am showing you most every other reference to doom and gloom in the bible ALSO points to the same judgment you agree was meted on Israel for the cross and rejection of Christ. But those judgments you do not agree point to AD70. That proves my claim that preterism focuses more on the cross in terms of judgment in the word than any other view..

Does it focus more 'on the cross'? Or more on the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70? ALL judgment against this world relates to the cross. Whether it took place in AD 70 or takes place a million years from now, it ALL has to do with what happened on Golgotha.

Therefore i do not see preterism as being 'more focused on the cross' than any other view. I do see preterism being more focused on AD 70 than any other view, however. While AD 70 was certainly significant, and prophesied, it is not the center of prophecy (as preterism makes it out to be). CHRIST is the center of prophecy, the testimony of Jesus is the 'spirit of prophecy'. AD 70 is a byproduct of the focus on BIBLE prophecy, not the big thing itself.

AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem being a CONSEQUENCE of the crucifying of the Lord of glory means explicitly that the FULFILLMENT OF JUDGMENT AGAINST JERUSALEM is not and CANNOT be the 'center' or 'focus of prophecy'. The consequence is not the same as the cause. Preterism is ENTIRELY about prophetic fulfillment in the first century with the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem. When preterism entered the Campbellite churches it was known as 'AD 70 doctrine' and for good reason. Regardless of whether preterism is true or false, however, it is undeniably centered on AD 70. PReterism is the belief that prophecy was mostly or completely fulfilled in the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem. Everything else about preterism is secondary and supportive of that position.

Therefore, preterism is not 'more focused on the cross' than any other scheme of interpretation. Rather, it is more focused on 'the consequences of the cross which took place in AD 70' than any other scheme of interpretation.

In fact, using your line of reasoning, I could argue historicism is more focused on the cross than preterism, like this:

The cross was THE central event of all history. In fact, all history either flowed to the cross or flows from the cross, good bad and ugly. Prophecy is the foretelling by God of the key events throughout history, therefore historicism focuses more on the cross because it views all history as being the prophesied effects and results of the cross. Preterism, however, limits all that to the first century only. Preterism puts prophecy into the first century only, therefore preterism focuses the cross and it's effects into one century, indeed, into just four decades, whereas historicism focuses the cross and it's effects into ALL HUMAN HISTORY PAST AND PRESENT AND FUTURE. Therefore, historicism is more focused on the cross than preterism.

I am not saying I would make that argument against preterism itself, but I will say it is a dandy and rational rebuttal to the claim that preterism 'focuses MORE on the cross than ANY OTHER scheme of prophecy interpretation.'