Your tithes were already paid.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Circumcision and animal sacrifice predate the Law as well. So what's your point? You have yielded ZERO proof that God ever instituted a tithe prior to the Law, or that he ever commanded anyone to do it on occasion. Thus your doctrine is man-made, based on faulty hermeneutics and not based on scripture.

Thank you for you OPINION.

You cannot prove tithing ceased in the NT. Should I accuse you of teaching a man-made doctrine? You have yielded ZERO proof that tithing has ceased. Should I accuse you of faulty hermeneutics as well?

Circumcision is part of the NT. It is called baptism.
(Col 2:11 KJV) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(Col 2:12 KJV) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Animal sacrifices have ceased because Jesus is the perfect sacrifice.

[J.A. Perez]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

If tithing is a eternal moral law because it predates the law given to Moses, then so does the observance of the Sabbath. The Sabbath being holy was instituted at the 7th day when God rested. We can't pick and choose through the law what stays and what goes. All the law was fulfilled and is still being fulfilled in Jesus. I believe tithing according to the law was fulfilled in Jesus. Tithing is a good financial stewardship plan, but I don't see it as a law that passed on to the NT church.

Good stuff! I respect your opinion.
Not in a disrespectful way brother I'd like to point some things out. The reason that the other 9 commandments still stand as a line is because they were reinforced by the New Testament. The sabbath is the one God chose to reveal yet hidden to the readers then present. He chose to fulfill his sabbath in the church And we live it on a daily basis.

Isaiah 28:9-13
Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk,
and drawn from the breasts.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:

For with stammering lips and another tongue
will he speak to this people.

To whom he said,
This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little;....

Hebrews 4:1-12
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Colossians 21:6,17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;


I could outline the other nine with new testament scripture, but I think you know them all as well. These are all part of Gods moral law.

I know that Malachi's words are meaningless to some but I still believe in them..

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;....

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

God bless you!

[Sean]

[QUOTE=J.A. Perez;1398832]Good stuff! I respect your opinion.
Not in a disrespectful way brother I'd like to point some things out. The reason that the other 9 commandments still stand as a line is because they were reinforced by the New Testament. The sabbath is the one God chose to reveal yet hidden to the readers then present. He chose to fulfill his sabbath in the church And we live it on a daily basis.




Brother Perez, did you know the 10 commandments were abolished for the believer?

[Sean]

As a matter of fact, every part of the Law is abolished for the Spirit led believer.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Sean

I am trying to open your eyes to something that you and your peers have been proposing as doctrine, with no New Testament Church verses to sustain it.

It is not like the "truthbearers" of our oneness movement, to make doctrines up.

We are expected to be a shining light on a hill.

Well, this light is really a blacklight that shines dimly, with this false doctrine at the forefront.

Our preachers are more concerned of money than souls.

I interviewed a local UPC pastor at lunch and asked him, "would you rather that Jesus have 100 souls in your church that pay 5% or 50 souls in your church that pay 10%?"

He chose the 50 souls.

Let me ask you the same question, Pliny.....

"would you rather that Jesus have 100 souls in your church that pay 5% or 50 souls in your church that pay 10%?"

I would like you to pick which one please...

Thank you.

Sean I have been respectful to you. I really wish you would return the respect. I have given NT scriptures before BTW.
I suppose by "truthbearers" you are being sarcastic? Means nothing to me.

The black light that shines dimly with false doctrine is again insulting. I understand that you disagree but that does not mean you have to be ugly and disagreeable.

I am a Oneness preacher so I guess you are accusing me of loving money more than souls. I guess that is why I have never taken a salary from the church and work a full time job to support my family.

I really don't care about anecdotal testimonies. No offense intended. it's just anecdotal evidence does not mean much within scholarly research.

As to your question I don;t care if a thousand come and do not pay tithes. That's none of my business. My responsibility is to teach and preach. So your question is irrelevant as far as I can see.

[Sean]

"Partial Law" teaching is a ticket to the lake of fire.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Good stuff! I respect your opinion.
Not in a disrespectful way brother I'd like to point some things out. The reason that the other 9 commandments still stand as a line is because they were reinforced by the New Testament. The sabbath is the one God chose to reveal yet hidden to the readers then present. He chose to fulfill his sabbath in the church And we live it on a daily basis.

Isaiah 28:9-13
Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk,
and drawn from the breasts.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:

For with stammering lips and another tongue
will he speak to this people.

To whom he said,
This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

But the word of the Lord was unto them
precept upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little;....

Hebrews 4:1-12
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Colossians 21:6,17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;


I could outline the other nine with new testament scripture, but I think you know them all as well. These are all part of Gods moral law.

I know that Malachi's words are meaningless to some but I still believe in them..

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not;....

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

God bless you!

Thank you for doing this. I don't have the time. I have spent too much time already.

The NT still says ALL scripture is inspired of God and is profitable for doctrine...

Take Care

[Pliny]

[QUOTE=Sean;1398833]

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Good stuff! I respect your opinion.
Not in a disrespectful way brother I'd like to point some things out. The reason that the other 9 commandments still stand as a line is because they were reinforced by the New Testament. The sabbath is the one God chose to reveal yet hidden to the readers then present. He chose to fulfill his sabbath in the church And we live it on a daily basis.




Brother Perez, did you know the 10 commandments were abolished for the believer?

Sooo...
Idolatry is ok?
Murder is ok?
Adultery is ok?

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Sean

As a matter of fact, every part of the Law is abolished for the Spirit led believer.

Jeremiah disagrees.

(Jer 31:31 KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(Jer 31:32 KJV) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(Jer 31:33 KJV) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Sean I have been respectful to you. I really wish you would return the respect. I have given NT scriptures before BTW.
I suppose by "truthbearers" you are being sarcastic? Means nothing to me.

The black light that shines dimly with false doctrine is again insulting. I understand that you disagree but that does not mean you have to be ugly and disagreeable.

I am a Oneness preacher so I guess you are accusing me of loving money more than souls. I guess that is why I have never taken a salary from the church and work a full time job to support my family.

I really don't care about anecdotal testimonies. No offense intended. it's just anecdotal evidence does not mean much within scholarly research.

As to your question I don;t care if a thousand come and do not pay tithes. That's none of my business. My responsibility is to teach and preach. So your question is irrelevant as far as I can see.

Thanks for NOT answering my question, Pliny.

This is a forum, bro., not a mutual admiration society.

I am only trying to get you to preach the EXACT truth, without causing saints and sinners to stumble at the GREAT WALL OF TITHES, that has been erected between them and their savior.

Mr. Pliny!...Tear down this wall!!!!!