Once Saved Always Saved

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I don't think so. Acts 2:38 applies the work of the cross specifically. A prayer doe snot do that.

Act 2:37-38 KJV Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:6 KJV He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
Act 10:46-48 KJV For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, (47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Excellent! The work of the cross STARTS there, but it is not finished there. It is a continuing process in our lives. The work begins when the blood of Jesus is applied to our lives, but it is a process that continues throughout our lives, striving to "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." It is an ongoing process that begins with Acts 2:38.

[houston]

(My apologies. I did not mean "misrepresentstion." Please forgive me.
I di realize that my posting has been more "off" than is the norm. I
have been running on very little sleep and high stress levels.)

To the poster that stated that people can interpret OSAS as a license
to sin. I ask, so what? Do you frame doctrine based on how someone
will misinterpret it? People misinterpret everything.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by houston

I lean toward Calvinism. At this point I know more Calvinists than OP's.
I do not know one Calvinist that believes a child of God can continue to live in willful sin.

The typical Baptist version of OSAS (perseverance of the saints) is quite different from Calvinism. Seems that many Baptists have borrowed OSAS from the Calvinists and rejected the rest of their doctrine. Perseverance of the saints fits a little better if you believe the other 4 points. I don't believe any of the points.

[jfrog]

Are we better than God?

We are commanded to forgive each other 70*7 times per day as long as we ask. If God asks for that kind of forgiveness from men then how much greater is his forgiveness towards us?

Once saved always saved isn't permission to sin. It's the realization that there is always forgiveness for your sins. It's the realization that if you die while commiting a sinful act that you are not condemned to hell. It's the realization that if you die before asking God's forgiveness after commiting a sinful act that you are not condemned to hell.

Who here believes that if you tell a little lie and then die before you ask god's forgiveness again that you will end up in hell?

Who here believes that if you become angry your your neighbor that you will go to hell if you die before asking God's forgiveness?

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Are we better than God?

We are commanded to forgive each other 70*7 times per day as long as we ask. If God asks for that kind of forgiveness from men then how much greater is his forgiveness towards us?

Once saved always saved isn't permission to sin. It's the realization that there is always forgiveness for your sins. It's the realization that if you die while commiting a sinful act that you are not condemned to hell. It's the realization that if you die before asking God's forgiveness after commiting a sinful act that you are not condemned to hell.

Who here believes that if you tell a little lie and then die before you ask god's forgiveness again that you will end up in hell?

Who here believes that if you become angry your your neighbor that you will go to hell if you die before asking God's forgiveness?

To answer your question...un repented sin condemns to hell...period.

Who here believes that it's important to walk before God with a pure heart and a clean conscience?

Is the forgiveness? Certainly. The bible tells us how to attain it.
I John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If it were not possible to walk before God in holiness the John would have never written "that ye sin not" . Yet, recognizing that flesh is prone to wander he also wrote "but if any man sin."

I'm thankful for God's mercy if I do sin and confess it before him, and I'm thankful for the day by day walk in the Spirit that is able to keep me from sinning.

I tell people" if you sin everyday then you need to pray through". I believe holiness is sinlessness.

[shazeep]

25For the wrongdoer will be paid back for whatever wrong he has done, and there is no favoritism.

ya, i gotta say that if you are lying and getting vengeance and then dying before you rebound, you might have to be worried but i think someone really following Christ should not be awake nights worrying about such, either--you die when God decides.

but also, we are swimming in sin, all of us, and none moreso than those who think they have gone a day without sinning; of which i was one. Anyone reading this must contemplate whether they are the proverbial Rich Man, who will hear "remember, in your life, you had good things..."

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by jfrog;1402448[QUOTE

]Are we better than God?

We are commanded to forgive each other 70*7 times per day as long as we ask. If God asks for that kind of forgiveness from men then how much greater is his forgiveness towards us?

The Lord tells us that vengeance is his and he will repay. We need to forgive and move on but that does not mean that everyone will receive forgiveness in the day of judgement.

Once saved always saved isn't permission to sin. It's the realization that there is always forgiveness for your sins. It's the realization that if you die while commiting a sinful act that you are not condemned to hell. It's the realization that if you die before asking God's forgiveness after commiting a sinful act that you are not condemned to hell.

To walk around with realization that there is always forgiveness of sin is wrong.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses 'law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Who here believes that if you tell a little lie and then die before you ask god's forgiveness again that you will end up in hell?

Who here believes that if you become angry your your neighbor that you will go to hell if you die before asking God's forgiveness?[

/QUOTE]

I believe you could go to hell if you have dishonesty in your heart before you die. That is not my call, who is going to heaven or hell. We need to have a fear for God, that seems to be absent in most of modern Christianity.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

They have the little card that they play, as I've heard it before this encounter - that if you willfully sin and go back to the "world", then you never were saved to begin with.

That idea is not supported in scripture, namely using the scripture that Esaias provided, Heb. 6:4-8. We can lose our salvation simply by slacking off, and not allowing the mind of Christ to rule in our hearts and lives.

You are exactly right about them saying they were not really saved, which is when I insert the evidence by speaking in tongues removes that excuse.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esther

You are exactly right about them saying they were not really saved, which is when I insert the evidence by speaking in tongues removes that excuse.

wadr, that is not the warm blanket that many OPs would like to imagine. "as the spirit gives utterance," and even then, Scripture allows that one may fall away, in many places.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Our single widowed neighbor, who is a staunch Baptist, had a discussion with us where she said she believes in once saved always saved. We had a discussion about how we view it. She did not really have any scripture to back up her position, but said she was going home to study it, and present it to us at a later time.

What is the best way to refute this doctrine?

We took her to Revelation where Jesus was speaking to the churches, and it was quite obvious that they were believers, and yet he was rebuking them strongly, and if they didn't repent, he would "spue them out of his mouth". Her response to this was that they were never believers in the first place for this to happen. This is the card they play to get out of the concept of not being once saved always saved.

Any scriptures, pointers or ideas/concepts in which it can be discussed with her that we can't just live recklessly after our faith in Jesus, and still expect to be saved? She is not doing that of course - she loves the Lord dearly, and I believe the Lord has led her to come into our path to lead her to more truth. I just want to handle this carefully. She has been coming to our home group meetings, and she has expressed how wonderful it is to gather like this, and feel the sweet spirit of the Lord in our meetings. We believe the Lord wants to lead her on to greater truth.

The scriptures in Hebrews chapters 3-6, 10, 2Peter 2