Love One Another and the Cross

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You fail to realize I am getting this from the Bible not from tradition or churches. I dumped everything I was taught when I was called, and studied the bible to determine what the Word of God said. I realized many things I was told before were correct, even strengthened, but some things were never covered at all. And then I saw things that I was taught were incorrect.

So, I continued to study each new testament book verse by verse. And the cross came to the forefront so much it changed my view of prophecy. It changed my focus of emphasis. The Bible is the cross and Christ's love for us that cannot be topped through that cross. The blood the blood the blood is everything. And the teaching of the Word informing us that Christ died for the ungodly, and associated greatest love with that, is where the focus of ANY love should be centred. THAT is the love to be looking at.



This is why I teach our people that they are not to trust what I say because I said it. You seem to think everyone who teaches Acts 2:38 does not truly teach people how to be led by the Spirit. It's unjust of you to do this everytime you talk to what you call an OP. YOu came across a segment of OPism that is offtrack, I agree. but you tarred everyone who is oneness with the same unjust brush unjustly. You did this so much so that you won't consider that someone may have insight you never experienced.



I hate ceremony and service, and have told you I don't know how many times it's the HEART. But you take that and twist it with words in my mouth and continue to say I am steeped in ceremony.



When you care to open your mind from its offended closed state, and actually discuss to see if you could possibly learn something, let me know. So far, all I see is the results of having been disillusioned and you closed your mind to any adherent of Acts 2:38, which you actually admit is in the bible and has a true place. But you're too closed due to offence. And at your age that's the last thing you need.

i think after we address your response to my statement we might be in a better position to talk about what offends me, or what my mind is closed to. Yes, i am naturally more closed to someone claiming to be an adherent of Acts 2:38 now; it comes with the territory of judging by the fruit.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i think after we address your response to my statement we might be in a better position to talk about what offends me, or what my mind is closed to. Yes, i am naturally more closed to someone claiming to be an adherent of Acts 2:38 now; it comes with the territory of judging by the fruit.

...to the point you won't even really discuss.

I do not care what you think of me and if I am lost or not. It's about truth, not me, since you indicated what statement you referred to.

[shazeep]

and since that is put disingenuously, feel free to rephrase it, since it generally is put in the form of an invitation. I'm not interested in winning some empty argument on semantics.

[shazeep]

if i were putting words in your mouth, i would not be asking you for an answer, would i? Surely we can both admit that if someone approached us telling us we were going to hell, we would dismiss it out of hand, and likely be offended; the moreso, as more Bible "proof" was brought to bear. After all, you might use this on some newbie, but we are knowledgeable seekers! Right?

[shazeep]

ok i think that's fine too, if over-wrought; until you are led en masse to "Everyone else is lost," and similar reflections that are not love. Let the Spirit be your guide. Or go buy a gun

Love: The Superior Way

1If I speak human or angelic •languages
but do not have love,a
I am a sounding gongb or a clanging cymbal.
2If I have the gift of prophecyc
and understand all •mysteries
and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith
so that I can move mountainsd
but do not have love, I am nothing.
3And if I donate all my goods to feed the poor,
and if I give my body in order to boaste
but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient,f love is kind.
Love does not envy,g
is not boastful, is not conceited,h
5does not act improperly,
is not selfish,i is not provoked,j
and does not keep a record of wrongs.
6Love finds no joy in unrighteousness
but rejoices in the truth.k
7It bears all things, believes all things,
hopes all things, enduresl all things.

8Love never ends.m
But as for prophecies,
they will come to an end;
as for languages, they will cease;
as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
9For we know in part,
and we prophesy in part.
10But when the perfect comes,
the partial will come to an end.
11When I was a child,
I spoke like a child,
I thought like a child,
I reasoned like a child.
When I became a man,
I put aside childish things.
12For now we see indistinctly,n as in a mirror,o
but then face to face.p
Now I know in part,
but then I will know fully,q
as I am fully known.r
13Now these three remain:
faith, hope,s and love.
But the greatest of these is love.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok i think that's fine too, if over-wrought; until you are led en masse to "Everyone else is lost," and similar reflections that are not love. Let the Spirit be your guide. Or go buy a gun

Love: The Superior Way

1If I speak human or angelic •languages
but do not have love,a
I am a sounding gongb or a clanging cymbal.
2If I have the gift of prophecyc
and understand all •mysteries
and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith
so that I can move mountainsd
but do not have love, I am nothing.
3And if I donate all my goods to feed the poor,
and if I give my body in order to boaste
but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient,f love is kind.
Love does not envy,g
is not boastful, is not conceited,h
5does not act improperly,
is not selfish,i is not provoked,j
and does not keep a record of wrongs.
6Love finds no joy in unrighteousness
but rejoices in the truth.k
7It bears all things, believes all things,
hopes all things, enduresl all things.

8Love never ends.m
But as for prophecies,
they will come to an end;
as for languages, they will cease;
as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
9For we know in part,
and we prophesy in part.
10But when the perfect comes,
the partial will come to an end.
11When I was a child,
I spoke like a child,
I thought like a child,
I reasoned like a child.
When I became a man,
I put aside childish things.
12For now we see indistinctly,n as in a mirror,o
but then face to face.p
Now I know in part,
but then I will know fully,q
as I am fully known.r
13Now these three remain:
faith, hope,s and love.
But the greatest of these is love.

Love is God's will. But it is not unloving just because someone says a group of people who wholesalingly reject the crucifixion are lost because the bible says without the cross one is lost.

But once again you fail to discuss the issue that you raised about the garments.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Love is God's will. But it is not unloving just because someone says a group of people who wholesalingly reject the crucifixion are lost because the bible says without the cross one is lost.

But once again you fail to discuss the issue that you raised about the garments.

I'm really not interested in the cheap shots, Mike. By all means, keep to your knowledge, and hold it sacred. If you believe it is loving and showing humility to condemn others as lost, and that you have found some knowledge that makes you saved, that spiritually expresses the Cross, then be sure in your own mind. Scripture provides many indicators for hypocrisy, which is hard to see in ourselves, but quickly evident to others.

How do you determine if someone is saved or lost, again? Tell me, if you know. And since you will not admit that verbal declarations are sufficient for most OPs, i will say it. And we both know that an OP would not accept any declarations that they might be lost; yet others are supposed to take it from them. I could go on, but i think the point is sufficiently made.

And while there can be hypocrisy in knowledge, and even works, there is none in love. Love does not split into many sects, all disagreeing with each other on some irrelevant issue. As the NT teaches, over and over, in many parables--the ones OPs shy away from like hot potatoes, or give huge, intricate explanations for--love is not a product of faith; but faith must be a product of love. The very passages you mention to secure your faith in knowledge, 2 John 1, 1 Peter, on and on, testify that love is the point. "Do not be deceived, little children."

But more than that i think, 65 million Americans leaving traditional church testify to it. They didn't leave because they experienced too much love. They were seekers, who left because of hypocrisy. So i'll say again, if your knowledge leads you to love, great! But if it leads you to "the Good Samaritan is lost," or "Christ wasn't really saying that we should love one another, that is law," or "Everyone else is lost, who doesn't have the knowledge i have," or any of the other contortions you have demonstrated here, at least be warned that some self examination might be in order.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

I'm really not interested in the cheap shots, Mike.

I am making no cheap shots. However, you continue to put words in my mouth.

By all means, keep to your knowledge, and hold it sacred. If you believe it is loving and showing humility to condemn others as lost, and that you have found some knowledge that makes you saved,

You are something else.

I repeat over and over again I did not judge anyone. You cannot stand that, though, and refuse to accept the fact that God made the judgment and related it in the Bible.

that spiritually expresses the Cross, then be sure in your own mind. Scripture provides many indicators for hypocrisy, which is hard to see in ourselves, but quickly evident to others.

And you're the expert, meanwhile you judge away at who is a hypocrite. You say we cannot say a group is lost when the bible clearly says it, and call it judging to do otherwise and then hypocritically say I am a hypocrite. What a living oxymoron

How do you determine if someone is saved or lost, again?

Why are you so fixated on US JUDGING if someone is saved while you are so against anyone repeating the bible's judgments on who is lost, so much so that you twist the intention and make it out as though we are judging who is lost? It's the bible doing that. Not us.

To you it's all about what WE KNOW, and who cares what God knows?

Tell me, if you know. And since you will not admit that verbal declarations are sufficient for most OPs,

More lies.

I never said MOST or any fraction of OPs who do it either way. I agreed some do. More or not> I don't know. But you will twist what I just said here.

i will say it. And we both know that an OP would not accept any declarations that they might be lost; yet others are supposed to take it from them. I could go on, but i think the point is sufficiently made.

And while there can be hypocrisy in knowledge, and even works, there is none in love. Love does not split into many sects, all disagreeing with each other on some irrelevant issue.

Love can be perverted and that's what you have done.

Love is the first thing that w em must have before we can go to the cross. That perverts the truth that God's love came to us before we could love. You have the same love talk that the world does in saying disagreement with homosexuality is lack of love. Your cross is not the one in the bible, for you claim some of those who reject Christ even died, let alone died for us, have the true cross.

As the NT teaches, over and over, in many parables--the ones OPs shy away from like hot potatoes, or give huge, intricate explanations for--love is not a product of faith; but faith must be a product of love.

That is nonsense.

Hate the cross. trample the blood. Refuse to talk scripture that deals with the blood. You are one different article. I gave you a chance to actually talk. You proved you can't without twisting things.

The very passages you mention to secure your faith in knowledge, 2 John 1, 1 Peter, on and on, testify that love is the point. "Do not be deceived, little children."

Love is a point in the chat, but it;'s not the doctrine in 2 John you think it is. No schoalr sees that.

But more than that i think, 65 million Americans leaving traditional church testify to it. They didn't leave because they experienced too much love. They were seekers, who left because of hypocrisy. So i'll say again, if your knowledge leads you to love, great! But if it leads you to "the Good Samaritan is lost," or "Christ wasn't really saying that we should love one another, that is law," or "Everyone else is lost, who doesn't have the knowledge i have," or any of the other contortions you have demonstrated here, at least be warned that some self examination might be in order.

I have explained over and over what I meant and you continue to twist it in statements like you just made. I don't know what you experienced, but boy did it ever make you a sceptic of true believers and more open to those who deny Jesus even died! WOW!

I'm done wasting time here. Talk about lack of love. Wow.

[shazeep]

Hey, i never claimed to be the example; that is what Christ is for!

"Why are you so fixated on US JUDGING if someone is saved while you are so against anyone repeating the bible's judgments on who is lost, so much so that you twist the intention and make it out as though we are judging who is lost? It's the bible doing that. Not us."

ok, well then believe me when i tell you in all love that you are lost anda goin' ta hail if you don't change your mind! And i can prove it with Scripture!
it's the Bible, it isn't me!

Judge not, or you will be judged.

[shazeep]

hopefully the point is made that formulas for Scriptural judgement by humans are ultimately self-serving, and irrelevant.