Love One Another and the Cross

[mfblume]

bump/

Come on, you can do it...

(I think)

Originally Posted by mfblume

Exactly. But that does not say the doing of righteousness is what EARNED us righteousness, for it cannot be earned anyway. It is saying, in context with all the rest of the bible, not contradicting the rest of it, that the one who has already been made righteous will do righteous deeds, and that is how we know they're righteous. It showing EVIDENCE of someone already made righteous, and not showing the root cause of what made such a person righteous. It only shows the cause for being able to say one is righteous.



During Old Testament times, there was no gift of righteousness offered by grace, so none were righteous. There is now!


The context of that verse in Romans 3 is a list of Old Testament passages that prove there was no one made righteous by the Law, since those verses were from the law and written to those under law.

Rom 3:9-20 KJV What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; (10) As it is written,
[NOW PAUL LISTS OLD TESTAMENT PROOFS TO SUBSTANTIATE HIS CLAIM HE JUST MADE]

There is none righteous, no, not one: (PSALM 14:3)
(11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (PSALM 14:2)
(12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.(PSALM 14:3)
(13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: (PSALM 5:9)
(14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (PSALM 10:7)
(15) Their feet are swift to shed blood: (ISA. 59:7)
(16) Destruction and misery are in their ways: (ISA. 59:7)
(17) And the way of peace have they not known: (ISA. 59:8)
(18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.(PSALM 36:1)

[Now paul goes back to his estimation of what those verses prove]
(19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Notice the reason Paul gave for listing these statements from Law. To prove that NO FLESH can be justified by Law. He showed that LAW's deeds cannot save. They cannot justify. After having provided detailed laws to love, Paul said God proved man cannot obey them. IF MAN COULD SUCCESSFULLY OBEY THEM AND NOT FAIL, MAN WOULD BE RIGHTEOUS BY WORKS WITHOUT THE BLOOD OF THE CROSS. But man cannot, and all that list proves it.

That's why, after saying Law could not make man righteous, the SAME chapter says this:

Rom 3:20-26 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (22) Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: (23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

It would be SELF righteousness if we could successfully work the good deeds of love as law demanded. But no one can be that successful. So it doesn't work.

So, you took Romans 3:10 out of context.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

bump/

Come on, you can do it...

(I think)

put the dogma down for just a minute, Mike. Why do you constantly refute Christ with Paul? Are the posts below this also going to be spewing empty repetitions of legalese from Paul? I'll run them by my lawyer in the morning, k?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

put the dogma down for just a minute, Mike. Why do you constantly refute Christ with Paul? Are the posts below this also going to be spewing empty repetitions of legalese from Paul? I'll run them by my lawyer in the morning, k?

I am showing Paul does not refute Christ. Do you think Paul refutes Christ? (Still avoiding exegesis of scripture, I see.)

[shazeep]

ok, well i am comfortable with you condemning Good Samaritans (and Muslims, Catholics, Baptists, and prolly most OPs), and i will keep running from proselytizing Christians

[shazeep]

"A" is for Anarchy

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, well i am comfortable with you condemning Good Samaritans (and Muslims, Catholics, Baptists, and prolly most OPs), and i will keep running from proselytizing Christians

Cannot deal with actual scripture. Very telling.

[shazeep]

i understand that i am not dealing with Scripture the Rhema way, but i suggest to you that you did not come to Acts 2:38 as a mantra on your own. You have been influenced from the cradle. This has advantages, and disadvantages. I could as easily state that you refuse to deal with Scripture @ Little children, do not be deceived, as well. I could dig up pages of threads, at this point, that illuminate how you do not really believe everything you are saying. But enough of that. Discounting someone's opinion, or belittling, does not win an argument.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i understand that i am not dealing with Scripture the Rhema way, but i suggest to you that you did not come to Acts 2:38 as a mantra on your own. You have been influenced from the cradle. This has advantages, and disadvantages. I could as easily state that you refuse to deal with Scripture @ Little children, do not be deceived, as well. I could dig up pages of threads, at this point, that illuminate how you do not really believe everything you are saying. But enough of that. Discounting someone's opinion, or belittling, does not win an argument.

When are you ever going to actually discuss scripture? You quote Romans 3 and I lay out context and intent of the reference, and you say nothing about it.

Always circles.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When are you ever going to actually discuss scripture? You quote Romans 3 and I lay out context and intent of the reference, and you say nothing about it.

Always circles.

if i am running circles around you, i apologize.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

if i am running circles around you, i apologize.

...funny

Come on, you are GOING in circles. Big difference.