Once Saved Always Saved - Page 26

shazeep · #**251** 11-23-2015, 09:13 AM

"How many times must I say the GS acts did not save him, and Jesus said nothing about him being saved?"

Say it all you like! Christ tells us to "Go, and do likewise" and i note that He specifically chose a certain person who would not agree with your interpretation. And for good measure, we have the First Son, if the GS gives one any dilemma.

shazeep · #**252** 11-23-2015, 09:17 AM

"Why talk? What kind of church do you go to? Do you even go to a church?"

no, i am the Church.

"How many times must I say the INITIAL work of salvation that, when accomplished, is grounds to take us to heaven at that moment, is the work of God through the cross. Before we get a chance to do ANY GOOD DEED, we are made fit for heaven by having been given the ticket to glory, which is His righteousness. How many times must I repeat this?"

Until you stop believing it, i guess--it is not true. Or else, i will save Acts 2:38 for my deathbed. Right? You turn Acts 2:38 into a death sentence, true enough!

shazeep · #**253** 11-23-2015, 09:21 AM

"I never said anything about an empty claim. Never."

i did, though! your claim comes up empty when it leads to "They are all lost."

shazeep · #**254** 11-23-2015, 09:31 AM

"Pray tell me, HOW do I GET WASHED if I have not been washed already? Who does what? Don't forget, he just said not of works "WE HAVE DONE." Who does the work to wash us? How is it that we are washed? Pray tell me, HOW do I GET WASHED if I have not been washed already?"

well, Scripture says that you must wash your robes, so...as long as the song works for you, by all means do that. If that means trusting that Christ saved you back then, and is coming back to save you again someday, and you are in a holding pattern until then, more power to you. I don't believe that any more. It is anti Christ to me now. It leads to this "i don't believe OSAS, but i do believe one can lose a gift, but can't demonstrate that they have the gift" thinking. It's bunk.

Love was sufficient for the early church, who did not even have the NT. Love is the first doctrine, and love is 9/10ths of the law and prophets. Any thing one subordinates to love is a cult.

mfblume · #**255** 11-23-2015, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

"Follow the context is a warning?"

if you take it in the spirit intended, yes. The Galatians verses are about us needing a Savior, which i am not denying. But it is a different subject.

The fact is the Galatians text dealt with the purpose of the Law since the Galatians were going law-crazy. And the purpose of the law is certainly the entire issue in out chats. It's in Romans, too.

But again, you're making these claims and simply not dealing with the verses. After this long, I get the impression you never will. Again, do you actually disbelieve some of what the bible claims as if it were error?

shazeep · #**256** 11-23-2015, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

The fact is the Galatians text dealt with the purpose of the Law since the Galatians were going law-crazy. And the purpose of the law is certainly the entire issue in out chats. It's in Romans, too.

But again, you're making these claims and simply not dealing with the verses. After this long, I get the impression you never will. Again, do you actually disbelieve some of what the bible claims as if it were error?

I have been doing nothing but feeding you Scripture telling you that love comes first. Do you actually disbelieve most of what the Bible claims?

mfblume · #**257** 11-23-2015, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

I have been doing nothing but feeding you Scripture telling you that love comes first. Do you actually disbelieve most of what the Bible claims?

I have been telling you I agree, but all of that comes after the faith in Christ's death on the cross. And you said carrying the cross saves anyone in any religion, but you are not dealing with the passages in the bible that state the death of Christ as us, that moves God to make us righteous before we have a chance to love anybody, COMES FIRST. And if that is not seen in a person's life, no matter how much they carry a cross, they are lost. You will not deal with the scriptures that state this. You avoided it then and you are still avoiding them now.

You say I misinterpret a passage, and question why I noted context, and YOU STILL do not show the correct meaning in them. I am getting the drift. You won't talk about them, will you? Are you fearful you will be shown to be wrong in this? Again, do you go to church, and if so what kind of church does not teach faith in the cross FIRST is what makes us righteous?

shazeep · #**258** 11-23-2015, 10:30 AM

An interesting reflection on this--possibly the most poignant one i could give you--is that i live with Acts 2:38 people right now, my parents. I have just been working in their yard, which i dislike because it is, of course, all "ornamental," or iow "dead," like the yards most all Americans keep (you'd never catch a Muslim doing this--when they plant something, you are going to be eating it).

So, i mow the yard, and trim all the dead shrubs--green or not, there will never be any fruit--and now, I'm even putting down black mulch, to complete the picture. I live in a funeral

See, the proclamations one makes about their "beliefs" carry exactly zero weight, with God; lots of people proclaim lots of things. Talk is cheap. There are at least 100 verses in the NT--many i have repeated these last few days--that will assure one that Love is the command, that existed before the NT. Find them, or ignore them.

"what kind of church does not teach faith in the cross FIRST is what makes us righteous?"

the creation centered kind, they are popping up all over. Faith subordinated to love is empty talk, and produces dead Christians who moo about the same stuff secular people worry about; no difference can be discerned. It is demonstrably an invitation to death--to believe that anyone who disagrees with you is lost.

mfblume · #**259** 11-23-2015, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

An interesting reflection on this--possibly the most poignant one i could give you--is that i live with Acts 2:38 people right now, my parents. I have just been working in their yard, which i dislike because it is, of course, all "ornamental," or iow "dead," like the yards most all Americans keep (you'd never catch a Muslim doing this--when they plant something, you are going to be eating it).

So, i mow the yard, and trim all the dead shrubs--green or not, there will never be any fruit--and now, I'm even putting down black mulch, to complete the picture. I live in a funeral

See, the proclamations one makes about their "beliefs" carry exactly zero weight, with God; lots of people proclaim lots of things. Talk is cheap. There are at least 100 verses in the NT--many i have repeated these last few days--that will assure one that Love is the command, that existed before the NT. Find them, or ignore them.

I never said anything about no need to bear fruit. Why the red herrings?

mfblume · #**260** 11-23-2015, 10:36 AM

Fact is, you should hear our sermons. I preach MUCH about bearing fruit. In fact, I just did a series of 8 sermons about the purpose of God to manifest through our lives into this world. Like a woman is married and bears children, the church is the bride of Christ meant to bear fruit into this world to touch lives all around us. And what will happen to those who bear no fruit?

John 15:1-8 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. (2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. (4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. (5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (7) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. (8) Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

The abiding part where the branch is united to the vine COMES FIRST. We get INTO CHRIST by way of His death of the cross. Ro 6:3. Acts 2:38. And THAT is meant TO LEAD TO the fruit bearing which is what He's after. But without the branch abiding in the vine by Acts 2:38, the fruit will not grow as a result.

Trying to be saved by works and is like a branch trying to bear fruit and not being connected to any overall vine.

You do not want to see that for some reason.

But you won't look. It's a game to you. You simply cannot understand nor deal with the scriptures I posted and are obviously trying to see how long you can pull me along before I realize you're playing. Sorry, I thought you were honest about this.