God vs the Constitution - Page 4

Jermyn Davidson · #31 12-01-2015, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

Legislated faith breeds hypocrisy, fear, and insincerity. The clergy become accountable to no one and the commoners are religious out of civil duty rather than a love for God. It doesn't work. Let people chose God if they so desire, then their faith and devotion to God is sincere.

America is not nor was it intended to be a "Christian Nation" and for that I'm grateful. It was intended to be a religiously free nation.

We agree on this!

A perfect example of this is Europe.

kclee4jc · #32 12-01-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

We agree on this!

A perfect example of this is Europe.

houston · #33 12-01-2015, 10:36 AM

I have a difficult time believing that God is pleased when unsaved people obey the "law."

shazeep · #34 12-01-2015, 11:02 AM

especially when the law is against the Commandments, i have to agree.

Aquila · #35 12-01-2015, 11:04 AM

The Law is for ancient Israel. Not the church. We should follow the Constitution.

shazeep · #36 12-01-2015, 11:05 AM

wrong, on several levels, imo.

Esaias · #37 12-01-2015, 11:40 AM

It's interesting how those who oppose the dominion of God have no scripture to stand on. They stand upon humanistic arguments, like the following:

1. You cannot legislate faith. The problem is, nobody argues that faith is to be legislated! The state was not ordained by God to create faith in Jesus Christ as the Messiah. But those who argue against the dominion of God seem to forget that under their humanistic, God denying government, faith is actively legislated against. This is what we see happening now. Slowly but surely, the faith of Jesus Christ is being attacked by government, and will continue until it is practically outlawed. The purest example of government without God is communism. And under communism, Biblical Christianity is for all practical purposes outlawed. That is where we are headed.

2. They also say you cannot legislate morality. But all law is legislated morality! Morals concern what a person ought to do or ought not to do. Law is nothing else than somebody's morals, because law dictates what a person ought or ought not to do. The question is not whether or not morals will be legislated, it is a question of whose morals will be legislated - God's? Or man's?

3. Another objection is 'whenever the church gets in charge it creates persecution'. Satan is already in charge, and those who live righteously will be persecuted, so how could a godly, Christ-honouring government be worse than an ungodly, God-denying government? Besides, the role of the church is not to run the government. The role of the church is to inform the authorities of the manifold wisdom of God. Just as the church is not appointed to run your personal family life, but it is appointed to inform you of God's will concerning your family. Your family is then accountable to God to follow the Bible. The same is true of government.

All these objections are straw men. They do not apply. All these objections reveal something about the objector - namely, they do not want, and would not prefer, to have God in control. They deny that Jesus has indeed been given ALL authority in heaven AND IN EARTH. They deny that ALL men, including governors and rulers and magistrates and legislators, are bound by an obligation to obey God in all things.

It's called 'lawlessness'. One day all nations shall be submitted to God's government (kingdom). All those who refuse that Christ should rule over them will be destroyed. I suspect many professing Christians are not ready to meet God, because for them God is just really a fairy tale meant to comfort them in the middle of the night. They have no intention of actually obeying Christ and promoting HIS interests in all things, all areas of life. I mean, if you wouldn't want Christ to actively reign NOW, what makes you think you will somehow be pleased and eternally happy when He reigns 'then'?

Guess what? Christ reigns now, whether anyone likes it or not. We better get used to it.

kclee4jc · #38 12-01-2015, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

It's interesting how those who oppose the dominion of God have no scripture to stand on. They stand upon humanistic arguments, like the following:

1. You cannot legislate faith. The problem is, nobody argues that faith is to be legislated! The state was not ordained by God to create faith in Jesus Christ as the Messiah. But those who argue against the dominion of God seem to forget that under their humanistic, God denying government, faith is actively legislated against. This is what we see happening now. Slowly but surely, the faith of Jesus Christ is being attacked by government, and will continue until it is practically outlawed. The purest example of government without God is communism. And under communism, Biblical Christianity is for all practical purposes outlawed. That is where we are headed.

2. They also say you cannot legislate morality. But all law is legislated morality! Morals concern what a person ought to do or ought not to do. Law is nothing else than somebody's morals, because law dictates what a person ought or ought not to do. The question is not whether or not morals will be legislated, it is a question of whose morals will be legislated - God's? Or man's?

3. Another objection is 'whenever the church gets in charge it creates persecution'. Satan is already in charge, and those who live righteously will be persecuted, so how could a godly, Christ-honouring government be worse than an ungodly, God-denying government? Besides, the role of the church is not to run the government. The role of the church is to inform the authorities of the manifold wisdom of God. Just as the church is not appointed to run your personal family life, but it is appointed to inform you of God's will concerning your family. Your family is then accountable to God to follow the Bible. The same is true of government.

All these objections are straw men. They do not apply. All these objections reveal something about the objector - namely, they do not want, and would not prefer, to have God in control. They deny that Jesus has indeed been given ALL authority in heaven AND IN EARTH. They deny that ALL men, including governors and rulers and magistrates and legislators, are bound by an obligation to obey God in all things.

It's called 'lawlessness'. One day all nations shall be submitted to God's government (kingdom). All those who refuse that Christ should rule over them will be destroyed. I suspect many professing Christians are not ready to meet God, because for them God is just really a fairy tale meant to comfort them in the middle of the night. They have no intention of actually obeying Christ and promoting HIS interests in all things, all areas of life. I mean, if you wouldn't want Christ to actively reign NOW, what makes you think you will somehow be pleased and eternally happy when He reigns 'then'?

Guess what? Christ reigns now, whether anyone likes it or not. We better get used to it.

Jesus will come and establish His Kingdom. For now, it is established in the Church. I am in the Church so He is reigning in my life. When he comes and reigns physically on the earth, it will be with His Church.

I believe that separation of Church and state is the best means for government in this age.

Esaias · #39 12-01-2015, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

Jesus will come and establish His Kingdom. For now, it is established in the Church. I am in the Church so He is reigning in my life. When he comes and reigns physically on the earth, it will be with His Church.

I believe that separation of Church and state is the best means for government in this age.

Do you have any scripture for these claims? Especially that last part?

BTW, nobody has proposed that 'church and state' be 'joined together'. Also, you do realise that even the Constitution does not provide for 'separation of church and state'?

Esaias · #40 12-01-2015, 11:50 AM

Also, if Jesus is reigning in your life, then wouldn't that mean you agree that he now has ALL authority, both in heaven and IN EARTH? Wouldn't that mean you agree that all nations are required to submit to his authority? That all men are to repent - including Presidents, governors, judges, etc?

Or do you still believe that getting a government job makes a person free from obedience to God?