God vs the Constitution

[Esaias]

The law is for ancient Israel, not the church.

So then only ancient Israel was required to avoid idols, avoid desecrated God's Sabbath, avoid murder, honour their parents, abstain from adultery, tell the truth about their neighbor, etc?

I wonder if Sodom and Gomorrah had a constitution? Looks like God wasn't too impressed by it...

[Aquila]

First, I'm a veteran. I'm sworn to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. So frankly, if you oppose the Constitution's authority in favor of your interpretation of religious law... you are no different than an Islamic extremist who would subjugate the Constitution to religious Islamic law... and that makes you an enemy of the United States.

Second, whose interpretation of the law is to be imposed? Yours??? Mine??? Protestantisms??? Catholicisms???

The Law of God is the Ten Commandments. They are ten moral principles to live by. The Law of Moses expands upon the Ten Commandments and includes the codified civil and ceremonial laws of Israel. However, those who are in Christ are dead to the Law and the Law is dead to them. We are dead and buried with Christ. The Law still stands, but it stands to condemn those who do not obey the Gospel. For us, it is fulfilled in Christ and we who are in Christ are dead to it.

Now we who are born again are governed by an infinitely superior higher law... love. It is the principle underlying the entire OT law. We are to love God with all of our being. And we are to demonstrate that love for God by loving others as ourselves. In this... we fulfill the whole law.

So the Law is only there to condemn the unrepentant... not to govern a modern nation.

[Esaias]

So if Christ returns in your lifetime you will fulfill your oath and fight to preserve the Constitution against His Divine Government?

Okie dokie.

[shazeep]

zing

[Esaias]

Can anyone give a scriptural presentation showing how the Bible teaches that governments and societies are exempt from obedience to God, that Christians in particular are to support man's autonomy from God?

Is Christ Lord of all? Of every area of life? He surely seems to think so, and so did the apostles and prophets. Please demonstrate from scripture any area of life that is free from God's authority.

Please show where we are taught by Christ or his apostles to stick God in a closet and only let him out on Sunday.

[Esaias]

http://vftonline.org/TestOath/09neutrality.htm

There is no other legitimate purpose for any human action than the advancement of the Kingdom of God. Patriotism (advancing the interests of a political coalition) is wrong; Humanism (advancing your own personal interests) is wrong; Satanism (advancing demonic interests) is wrong. Since all action runs to some purpose, if the purpose is not the building of God's Kingdom, then it is to build a rival Kingdom. There is no neutrality. The State cannot be impartial and non-religious.
THERE IS NO NEUTRALITY!
Let me illustrate this vital concept with a scenario so silly you will never forget it.

Suppose the inspired Prophet Isaiah rises before the court and says to his honor, "This prophet speaks in the Name of God, Who has full authority - full, plenary, absolute, unconditional legal, constitutional, ethical, moral, religious, metaphysical, and ontological authority - to issue direct orders to this court and expect them immediately to be obeyed, and this God hereby orders this court to rub its tummy and pat its head at the same time."

Now suppose the court replies that it will remain " neutral " with regard to the Prophet's claimed authority over the court. It will not deny the prophet's claim, but neither will it affirm the prophet's claim (and thereby risk an "establishment" of religion). The Court will not render a decision on the issue of whether or not the prophet's words do indeed have full, plenary, absolute, unconditional authority over the court, but the court does not begin rubbing its tummy and patting its head at the same time. It is, most assuredly, denying the prophet's claimed authority. (If the court accepted the authority claimed by the Prophet, then it would surely act obediently in terms of that revelation.) There is no neutrality. The State must not attempt to be "neutral." It must be faithful. The only other alternative is disbelief and rebellion.

The God of the Hebrew-Christian Bible claims this kind of authority. Everything we do has to be done Theocratically, says this God. If the court claims religious "neutrality" but does not obey the precepts of this religion, it is in fact denying the authority and legitimacy of this religion.[4]

In America, courts have been denying the authority of Christianity, while simultaneously claiming "neutrality."[5] And with 4,000 babies being murdered each day in America, you can see that this issue is not mere academic tummy-rubbing.

A government can be formed which says, "We deny the authority of God, and affirm the authority of Satan." A Christian cannot "support" such a government. A government can also be formed that says "We deny the authority of Satan, and affirm the absolute authority of God." This would be remarkable, and deserving of the Christian's support. But what are we to say about our own government, which claims to be "neutral" with respect to the all-encompassing and radical claims of Christ? Our nation is actually affirming its own authority and the right of Man to decide for himself what is good and what is evil. Can a system based on the philosophy of autonomy and "neutrality" expect the support of a Christian?

[Esaias]

Do any of you pray 'Thy will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven'?

What does that mean to you? Is it God's will that abortion be protected by law? Is it God's will that sodomite marriage so-called be allowed, protected, and even encouraged by law, government, schools, society? Is it God's will that the nation be governed by atheists, God-haters, liars, hypocrites, bribe-takers, infidels?

Or is it God's will that the nation be governed by godly men, in the fear of the Lord, in submission to Christ? Is it God's will that baby murder be treated as murder, and punished as such? That sodomy, adultery, murder, kidnapping, bribery, perjury, and so forth be punished? Are those things evil? Are those who practice such things evil? Should they be punished, yes or no?

Why claim Christ is LORD (of what?) if you believe people should not do what he commands?

If we as a nation reject the authority of God, what would our society look like? Would it not look like pretty much exactly what we have now? Gay rights. Abortion on demand. No fault divorce. Adultery being 'how we roll these days'. YOUR children being taught to disbelieve God, rebel against God, blaspheme against God, practice fornication and all uncleanness, so and so forth.

A nation that is not in submission to God is what we already have. How's that working out for everybody? Where will it lead?

Does anyone here believe Jesus is the ANSWER to our nations ills? If so, HOW? What does it look like?

If everybody were obedient to God, would abortion, adultery, theft, murder, sodomy, kidnapping, bribery, perjury, etc be illegal?

Where in Scripture does it say that the Constitution is a higher authority than God's Word?

[shazeep]

well, it does not. Scripture tells us to leave the world, not attempt to reform it per se. The Constitution is of the world.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Esaias,
In a country run by God, at what point do we get to kill the adulterer?

In a country run by God, at what point do we get to kill the homosexual?

In a country run by God, at what point do we get to kill the manslaughter-er?

In a country run by God, how many cities of refuge will their be and will we actually allow anyone to actually make it there?

In a country run by God, how much will you pay the guy that ensures that every male is circumcised before they come to church?

In a country run by God, will we practice capitalism or communism?

[shazeep]

"country run by God" is an oxymoron.