1 Corinthians 11:15

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Or we can look at the scriptures and just obey what is written. Thus, every woman ought to be covered, and every man uncovered, when praying or prophesying. And if a woman refuses, then she ought to have her cut off. But if she doesn't want that to happen, then she ought to be covered.

Well if the hair is given to the woman as her covering, then every male should be bald, no hair, none.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

What that picture implies to me is just too close to blasphemy for me to even respond to it by reposting.

Without getting too silly, you guys understand what I am saying?

Infusing western norms into the gospel is an easy way to pervert the spirit and intent of the scriptures.

Infusing western norms into the gospel is not cool. But, Paul's teaching on hair and headcoverings are not 'western norms.'

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Well if the hair is given to the woman as her covering, then every male should be bald, no hair, none.

Hair is nature's example of a covering that in a long fashion naturally looks more suitable to a woman than a man. But it was a natural example to show the covering Paul actually dealt with... a physical cloth. If it was hair, nature would not be used as a support, but would be the point at the start. But by the way Paul says, "Does not even nature itself teach you," using hair, informs us it's a support example, and not the issue. Nature and hair is an appeal to the actual covering. Hair is nature's covering, but not the one Paul pointed at primarily in this chapter.

Paul appealed to nature earlier as well asking if a bald woman looks nice to support that concept that neither did an unveiled woman appear correct. Bald men are "kosher", but not bald women.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Well if the hair is given to the woman as her covering, then every male should be bald, no hair, none.

The woman's hair is given her for a peribolaion (what we today would call a shawl). The lesson about hair is a lesson from nature to support Paul's actual instruction - that a woman ought to be covered when praying or prophesying. If she won't be, then she ought to have her hair cut off. Therefore, we can plainly see Paul is not commanding woman to have hair, but to be covered, and if they don't want to be covered, then they ought to be shorn.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul says nature teaches that if a woman has long hair it is a glory to her. The 'glory' is contrasted with the 'shame' which Paul says is attached to a man having long hair. What is a 'shame' for a man is a 'glory' to a woman.

Everybody knows that when a woman has long, flowing hair people ooh and ahh and complement her on it. Why? Because it's nice, looks good on a woman, it's a glory to her.

Nothing whatsoever about special powers, shekinah this or shekinah that.

What's even more interesting, is people seem to miss the fact that Paul's statements about a woman having long hair or a man having long hair are simply 'evidences' he brings up to support his argument. Thus, long hair on a woman or short hair on a man is not even what Paul was putting forward. Long hair was 'exhibit D' or something like that in a list of reasons supporting his teaching, found in the opening verses of the chapter.

Exactly!

Btw, I don't know if you all have access but here's a discussion in facebook about this subject in which a number of UPC folks weigh in including Jason Dulle. https://www.facebook.com/jeff.siriba...02242704324428

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Or we can look at the scriptures and just obey what is written. Thus, every woman ought to be covered, and every man uncovered, when praying or prophesying. And if a woman refuses, then she ought to have her cut off. But if she doesn't want that to happen, then she ought to be covered.

Every woman or every corinthian woman?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Every woman or every corinthian woman?

Paul said 'every woman', not 'every Corinthian woman'.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul said 'every woman', not 'every Corinthian woman'.

A few rapid fire questions for now. Be back later to elucidate.
So then what is the covering? is it hair?, a veil?, the husband?
What about unmarried women? widows? etc? How are they covered in the divine order of things?
What about the nazarite vow for women in the ot? She shaved her hair. Then women not cutting hair cannot be universal.
What would be wrong if these verses were about "customs"? Would God allow something for some and not for others based on customs?

[Truthseeker]

So is it still sin for women to cut their hair?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So is it still sin for women to cut their hair?

Sin is transgression of the law. If God's law forbids something, and someone does it, it is sin. If God's law commands something, and someone fails to do it, it is sin.

I don't remember any commandment 'a woman shalt not cut her hair'.

It is a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven. Just like it is a shame for a man to have long hair. Just because various men may like having long hair doesn't change the fact, and just because various women like having short hair doesn't change the fact.

But sin?

'Add not to his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.'