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01-15-2016, 01:16 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Everybody must have a pastor?
Q: Who was Paul's pastor?
Q: Who was Peter's pastor?
Q: If you are a pastor of a local church, then how do you have a pastor? I assume they are at a different assembly? How does that actually work? How do they 'pastor' you?
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01-15-2016, 02:08 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,710
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Q: Who was Paul's pastor?
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Jesus and the other apostles
Quote:
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Q: Who was Peter's pastor?
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Jesus and the other apostles
Quote:
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Q: If you are a pastor of a local church, then how do you have a pastor? I assume they are at a different assembly? How does that actually work? How do they 'pastor' you?
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Firstly of course Jesus, but most Christians have had a man or men in the discipleship process of their life. A wise person will not try to operate solitarly, but will seek counsel in leading in the local church.
I think we have a misconception of the term pastor and in a lot of cases are thinking of men above what is written ( 1Cor. 4:6). We all need people in our lives to help us to grow in the Lord, but inevitably we will work out our own salvation. I also think that the term pastor is a ministry and not a title. There are probably many pastors who don't profess that as their title.
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ
I believe this is the only mention of the word pastor in the NT. It means a shepherd. A shepherd cares for the flock. Not the other way around. For me it isn't do I have to have a pastor, but do I get to have a pastor. If someone truly is your pastor they are there to look out for your well being (not a lord over others). Who doesn't want that. It is the many wolves in sheeps clothing that causes many to withdraw from leadership.
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01-15-2016, 03:50 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
Jesus and the other apostles
Jesus and the other apostles
Firstly of course Jesus, but most Christians have had a man or men in the discipleship process of their life. A wise person will not try to operate solitarly, but will seek counsel in leading in the local church.
I think we have a misconception of the term pastor and in a lot of cases are thinking of men above what is written ( 1Cor. 4:6). We all need people in our lives to help us to grow in the Lord, but inevitably we will work out our own salvation. I also think that the term pastor is a ministry and not a title. There are probably many pastors who don't profess that as their title.
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ
I believe this is the only mention of the word pastor in the NT. It means a shepherd. A shepherd cares for the flock. Not the other way around. For me it isn't do I have to have a pastor, but do I get to have a pastor. If someone truly is your pastor they are there to look out for your well being (not a lord over others). Who doesn't want that. It is the many wolves in sheeps clothing that causes many to withdraw from leadership. |
The Ministry and the callings?
Most denoms seem to place the "pastor" over the assembly and the rest
of the Ministry. I believe that thinking is derived from the same spirit that
asked the Prophet Samuel for a king. The people saw the pomposity of
the kingdoms around them, and wanted to partake of the same.
There is only ONE Ministry, but different callings. Each calling is
subject to one another, and are to complement each other.
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01-16-2016, 12:14 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Q: Who was Paul's pastor?
Q: Who was Peter's pastor?
Q: If you are a pastor of a local church, then how do you have a pastor? I assume they are at a different assembly? How does that actually work? How do they 'pastor' you?
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Peter
James
Other pastors and Bishops
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-16-2016, 12:16 AM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
Posts: 26,945
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Where do y'all get that Peter was Paul's pastor?
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01-16-2016, 06:00 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
More correctly everyone needs a covering and authority they're under and submit themselves beneath.
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-16-2016, 08:13 AM
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On the road less traveled
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: On a mountain... somewhere
Posts: 8,369
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Q: Who was Paul's pastor?
Q: Who was Peter's pastor?
Q: If you are a pastor of a local church, then how do you have a pastor? I assume they are at a different assembly? How does that actually work? How do they 'pastor' you?
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Paul went up to the elders at Jerusalem. Peter was there as well. The NT is full of examples of plural leadership, and not one single head, other than Jesus Christ. There is not one scripture in any of the NT that says submit yourself to pastor, or one man... but many that do say submit yourself to others, to the elders... etc.
1 Corinthians 16:16 That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth.
Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
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01-16-2016, 08:15 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Portage la Prairie, MB CANADA
Posts: 38,161
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord
Paul went up to the elders at Jerusalem. Peter was there as well. The NT is full of examples of plural leadership, and not one single head, other than Jesus Christ. There is not one scripture in any of the NT that says submit yourself to pastor, or one man... but many that do say submit yourself to others, to the elders... etc.
1 Corinthians 16:16 That ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboureth.
Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. |
Exactly!
__________________
...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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01-16-2016, 09:52 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Nothing grander than circular logic! I guess we are to ignore Ephesians 4:11-13 because the founding fathers of the church in Acts did not list who their pastor was.
Lets just ignore the whole fact that they were the pioneer of the church establishing the first christian churches.
If the proposition is that because Peter and Paul didn't have pastors we don't nned them then that is absurd.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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01-16-2016, 09:56 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
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Re: Everybody must have a pastor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
More correctly everyone needs a covering and authority they're under and submit themselves beneath.
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"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ..."
Jesus Christ is man's covering (head), and His word (scriptures) our authority.
No man is called to be another man's covering, but a servant. If we serve a
man (have a man for our covering), we actually are serving the Tabernacle.
When we make the Lord our covering, we will serve Him, that is the ONE
that is IN the Tabernacle!
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