Rock Hudson Repented Before His Death

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Yes, I know you think I'm lost. Fortunately I'm not living to win your approval. I know in whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed unto Him against that day.

DB, for someone who accuses posters for not answering questions you do a good job not answering yourself. Now, 1st John 1:8 and 1st John 3:8, do they contradict each other? If the answer is no, then explain why it's no.
He who sins is of the devil. Mistakes are made when you are a child, but as you get older you should be doing better correct? James 4:17 states that if you know to do good and not do it it is sin unto you. 1st Timothy 1:13 Paul makes a point to tell his readers that he was a blasphemer, a violent persecutor of Christians, but then says he did it in ignorance, and unbelief. This was prior to Paul's revelation of Messiah. In Hebrews 6:5-6 the believer is warned that because they have tasted the good word of God with the powers of the age to come, yet have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open disgrace. Hence the reason why Jesus tells the religious Judeans that the lowest of the Judean cast system would enter the kingdom of heaven before them. Because the religious believed that they had no need of their Messiah, but the Judean lower down the totem pole knew he needed Christ. But once they were to come into the Body of Christ they were to go from child, to youth, to full aged adult 1st John 2:13-14. Not do what you prescribe of constantly believing that you don't know why God even deals with you? Bro, either that is some super overdose of humble steroids, or you have some issues.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

If you don't understand John in his Epistle you can only conclude that he is confused and maybe bipolar.

So, you don't just cherry pick the Bible, but you cherry pick posts? Wonderful.

Bro, explain what is happening in 1st 1st John 1:8 and 1st John 3:8. Please explain these verses in light of each other.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

He contradicts himself throughout---unless you understand the difference between one who CONTINUES in sin versus one who fails, gets back up, dusts himself off, and walks forward with Christ. Will he fail again? Probably.

DB? PROBABLY? So Philippians 3:14 is unattainable? John 5:48 means...what? Bro, probably? You teach a gospel which isn't good news at all. You teach that Jesus holds out a carrot on a stick and you chase it running on a treadmill.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

But he isn't actively and openly living a life of willful rebellion against God. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Yes, I agree it is a huge difference? But that would mean when you quote scripture to prove your point. You haven't the slightest idea to what that scripture is saying? Dude, you quoted Romans 7:24, and 1st Timothy 1:15 in your posts indicating that Paul believed that he was foremost of all sinners, and a wretched man! That means he was an active sinner who not only was the first of all sinners, but a wretched sinner! No, falling down, no dusting off, but someone who is barely hanging on ready to ignite. This man was converted when he was arresting and putting to death Christians? Yet, you teach that Paul believed he was number one sinner, and wretched just waiting to kill again? No, DB, I never called 1st John confused, bipolar, but what you believe is confused and extremely bipolar.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Of course we are to stop sinning! How you extract that I believe a Christian should continue in sin is silly.

No, it isn't silly. Because you claim the sermon on the mount has nothing to do with the followers of Jesus. That Jesus was subtly pointing to Himself? I know there is strange stuff taught in Non-Denominational (the title is an oxymoron) but this one is new? At least to me.

Yet, if you honestly believe that Jesus was indirectly pointing to Himself because NO ONE could become mature in Christ. Then you really don't believe that someone could get out of the sinning business. They always remain a neophyte, a babe, always drinking milk, and never eating strong meat.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Jesus was saying if you're going to work your way to salvation---perfection is the only way. Jesus was subtly pointing to Himself. He earlier said that He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. He was going to obey every commandment, every statute, every law of the OT, living a life of perfection. In fact, the whole Sermon on the Mount ultimately was about Jesus. Jesus is everything personified in Matthew 5-7.

DB, is this you not wording your post correctly again???

Bro, how do you expect to prove anything when you make such statements.

Jesus subtly pointing to Himself?

Matthew 5:2 starts off that Jesus is primarily teaching the Judeans.

But I notice you don't start with verses Matthew 5:3 and Matthew 5:4 was it because verse 3 is dealing with those who are weak in spirit, so therefore it couldn't possibly be Jesus? 4, because it deals with those lamenting being comforted? Jesus mourned in the garden, and angels ministered to Him. So, maybe you will revise your teaching to verse 4?

Matthew 5:6, I could see the inherit the earth in verse 5, but Jesus was hungering to be righteous? Isn't that the same as 1 John 3:7, dear children, don't let anyone deceive you about this: when people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. Wasn't that what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 5:6?

Matthew 5:7 Isn't Jesus telling the Judeans as well as us to be merciful?

OK, you stop at 7, but let's continue on. Shall we?

Matthew 5:8 so Jesus was to keep a pure mind so He would see God? Hey, you stopped at verse 7, so I would gather that verse 8 is for the saint? So Jesus admonishes them to keep their mind's pure. In Titus 1:15 we are reminded of purity of mind. Matthew 5:9 those who make peace are the children of God! So, that would totally do away with waterboarding, cruel and unusual interrogations.

Matthew 5:10-11 speaks of those who will be persecuted because of doing righteousness! Awesome!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

You mischaracterize me over and over (straw man building) because I don't agree with your version of the Gospel.

I mischaracterize you? So, is it ok all the times in the past, in the present, when you do it to me? Bro, maybe you should think about it? You are just calling it as you see it, I understand this. But I don't go wee wee wee all the way home. I don't waste my time telling you that you are misrepresenting me, calling me a legalist, blah, blah, blah, and wee wee wee.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Did Jesus die and fulfill the Law just to give us a whole new set of rules to obsess over and strive to keep?

DB, Love, no obsessing, no hard work, but falling in love and staying in love John 14:15. Cain's sacrifice was rejected because he just saw it as work, Abel was accepted because he was in love. 1st John 3:12 in the Young's Literal Translation goes like this; not as Cain -- of the evil one he was, and he did slay his brother, and wherefore did he slay him? because his WORKS were evil, and those of his brother righteous. But think of this, this wasn't the first time Cain ever came to offer worship with a bad attitude, because he became angry when God calls him out. God tells Cain that all he needed to do was to repent and therefore he would overcome sin. Cain went and spoke with his brother, but never was able to lose the tude. When we love Him with everything then what we must do isn't grievous 1st John 5:3.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Did He suffer like He did so we would have to once again go through the madness of trying to work hard to be good??? No no no!

Bro, the cross is first about love He loved us first John 3:16, 1st John 4:10, 1st John 4:19, 1st John 4:20. The new heart and new Spirit is through the Holy Ghost, through love from God. We return that love as dear children Ephesians 5:1. You posted that we aren't perfect, but becoming perfect? One, do you know what the Greek word for "perfect" means (still used in modern Greek)?

Two, can we reach that perfect maturity now, today, before we die? Again, God deals with everyone on a case to case basis, and some grow to maturity faster than others. While some grow very slow, some not at all Matthew 13:18.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Grace gives us the impetus to choose wisely and to live righteously. We are made right before God through faith. The righteousness of Jesus is imputed to us. The desire to do what is right in God's sight is given to us with a new heart and a new Spirit. To as many as received Him, to them gave He the power to become---BECOME---the sons of God. We are becoming. We aren't perfect. We are becoming.

Yes He who BEGAN a good work in you will be faithful TO COMPLETE. That means we are INCOMPLETE.

Yes, faithful to complete it, author and finisher of our FAITH. But again, you focus on being INCOMPLETE, and wear it like a badge of honor? Faith is focusing on reaching a goal. Not through your own human discipline, but through the Holy Ghost, your love of Jesus Christ propels you forward towards maturity in Christ. So, tell me, when are you going to be complete?

Any thoughts? Any idea?

It was attainable because Jesus emphatically said it in Matthew 5:48.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Your focus is on not sinning = OT legalism.

My focus would be as the man healed at the pool of Bethesda, the woman caught in the very act of adultery, both told to sin no more. The only way they would keep those commandments is if they loved the deliver. What I always find interesting and modern Rabbinical Jews find frustrating, is that your group doesn't seem understand Psalm 119.

How many times does the Psalmist say he loves God's law? Do you believe that he did it because he was focused on sin? Jesus came for the Judean, and Israeli remnant, those who loved Him. Not wringing their hands over their sins. Abel offered a much better sacrificed not because of what he offered on the altar. His sacrificed was filled with his love for God. You know when people perform the best? When they are in love, and when they are in love with someone they will focus on that someone. They don't walk around with a list of dos and don'ts. I THINK MAYBE you were beat over the head too many times with the Sear's catalog? Therefore you ended up a good Baptist? But the Apostolic preacher who showed me the way, showed me how Jesus loves us, which caused me to love Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Our focus is God's Grace = NT law of the Spirit.

Waterboarding and Kill the enemy?

You talk about Grace, unmerited favor, not deserving to be pardoned, but you would strap your enemy to a torture table? Bro, you see what I see?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

You like to make up stuff don't you? I bet you used to tuck hand towels in the back collars of your shirts and pretend to be Batman when you were a kid. What are you talking about?

You blew off what I said by saying it was a perfect metaphor for legalism. I'm making stuff up? I think your psychological projecting is getting the best of you.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I don't disagree with IF in this verse, but are you saying it's possible for a believer to attain perfection in this life?

So, Jesus tells them to be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect? I don't believe you even understand what the word perfect even means.
Bro, Philippians 3:15, Colossians 1:28, and James 1:4 please explain them to me?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Blameless means perfection? Blameless means a good and respectable reputation. My dad is a blameless man. He is honest and has integrity. He is a godly man. His reputation is impeccable. But my dad isn't perfect.

Let's try this again. Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Blameless in this verse means to be specifically morally pure, but these individuals were morally pure concerning the Law of Moses, and the Temple. Let's get plainer, walking in all the ordinances BLAMELESS. All the commandments BLAMELESS. Oh, and Mr Chief Sinner Wretched Man was blameless Philippians 3:6. Paul claimed to have obeyed the Law without fault.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Yet Paul later writes that there is nothing sinful about eating meat offered to idols. In Acts 15 they were fighting against legalists trying to enforce a New Testament set of works on Gentile Christians. The church was a work in progress. It still is[. And we are still having to fight against the carnal urge to turn the beauty of salvation into a depressing, difficult, drudgery---working hard to keep the rules, regulations, standards, dotting every i and crossing every t. Salvation by works is impossible.

Here you go cherry picking again?

Bro, Paul didn't give the church a do as you please with food offered to idols. Paul is the same individual who told a church in Asia Minor that they were to stop their paganism. Paul is telling Judean Christians that they know the idol is nothing1 Corinthians 8:4 . But if they are invited to eat don't ask what was set before you 1 Corinthians 8:11-12. Paul is the same individual who penned these words 1 Corinthians 10:19-21 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would NOT that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye CANNOT drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye CANNOT be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Did Jesus die only for your past sins? How is that possible? He died WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS---and we didn't even exist! You believe Jesus only died for the sins We commit up to being born again? After that we are on our own?

Bro, did you notice the word WERE? Another thing its funny how you say I'm focused on the sin issue. You are the one who is focused on the sin issue, it seems to haunt you. DB, the Messiah came to save the those of the remnant who remained in the domestic olive tree. The Greek Romans were grafted into the tree through belief, and would stay in the tree as long as they stayed in belief. Your whole soteriology of Sinner Christian is absent from the scripture. The Medieval Roman Catholic would actually walk on their knees to the church. Crawl like Buddhists on their stomachs up the flights of marble and stone. Padre Pio's bleeding stigmata is seen as a sign of holiness. You don't have to bleed DB, you don't have to sleep on a bed of nails. You don't have to worry about your sins under your bed or in your closet. Born again, meant to the Hellenized Judean Nicodemus that his pedigree meant nothing. He wasn't saved because he was a Judean, of noble stock. But he had to be born of God.

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Not true. The prize is attainable. I John 3 tells us that when we shall see Jesus we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. That's when it happens. As we walk with Jesus in this life we become more and more like Him, sure. But perfection won't happen while walking on this planet. We still have our flesh, and in our flesh dwells no good thing.

These verses of scripture Philippians 3:15, Colossians 1:28, and James 1:4 mean what? Is Paul speaking of glorified bodies in heaven?

[Esaias]

Death is the 'last enemy that shall be destroyed.' Did everyone get that? Death is the ENEMY. Not the saviour from sin - that's Jesus' job description. Death is not going to save you from your sin.

If Jesus doesn't save us from our sins in this life, then death will confirm us in our sins for eternity.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Death is the 'last enemy that shall be destroyed.' Did everyone get that? Death is the ENEMY. Not the saviour from sin - that's Jesus' job description. Death is not going to save you from your sin.

If Jesus doesn't save us from our sins in this life, then death will confirm us in our sins for eternity.

AMEN!

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Now, 1st John 1:8 and 1st John 3:8, do they contradict each other? If the answer is no, then explain why it's no.

No contradiction. There's a difference between some who CONTINUES in sin and one who sins.

He who sins is of the devil. Mistakes are made when you are a child, but as you get older you should be doing better correct?

Mistakes? Or sins? Of course one should be growing up into the stature of Christ.

James 4:17 states that if you know to do good and not do it it is sin unto you.

Written to believers. It would seem to be the inference that Christians are being told that their neglect to do good is sin.

1st Timothy 1:13 Paul makes a point to tell his readers that he was a blasphemer, a violent persecutor of Christians, but then says he did it in ignorance, and unbelief. This was prior to Paul's revelation of Messiah.

Yet AFTER his conversion he calls himself chief of sinners. AFTER his conversion he talks about the struggle within his flesh---"oh wretched man that I am!" He speaks in the present tense not in past tense. Was he continuing to persecute Christians? No. Did he still struggle in his flesh and even fail? 100% sure.

In Hebrews 6:5-6 the believer is warned that because they have tasted the good word of God with the powers of the age to come, yet have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open disgrace.

Right. Jesus died once, He will not be crucified again. There is no other way to salvation. If someone walks away from the faith and rejects the one and only death of Jesus, there is no other means for salvation. Those who become reprobates, those who continue in sin and pride and self righteousness, those whose consciences are seared with a hot iron, calloused beyond remorse and godly sorrow.

Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians who were continuously tempted to return to the law, seeking salvation by works. The writer of Hebrews is warning them that they cannot find another way to salvation.

Hence the reason why Jesus tells the religious Judeans that the lowest of the Judean cast system would enter the kingdom of heaven before them.

It's CASTE system, FYI.

Because the religious believed that they had no need of their Messiah, but the Judean lower down the totem pole knew he needed Christ. But once they were to come into the Body of Christ they were to go from child, to youth, to full aged adult 1st John 2:13-14. Not do what you prescribe of constantly believing that you don't know why God even deals with you? Bro, either that is some super overdose of humble steroids, or you have some issues.

There's nothing wrong with having a sense of being unworthy. I know you need me to be insincere or having a deep seated psychosis, but honestly that's all I meant by that statement. No need to overthink it.

DB? PROBABLY? So Philippians 3:14 is unattainable? John 5:48 means...what? Bro, probably? You teach a gospel which isn't good news at all. You teach that Jesus holds out a carrot on a stick and you chase it running on a treadmill.

I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me HEAVENWARD in Christ Jesus. The prize of Christlikeness is received at the resurrection. When we shall see Him. I John 3:1-4. In the meantime one PRESSES. Paul even said he had not "apprehended" the prize. Are you greater than our brother Paul?

John 5:48 means nothing because there is no such scripture.

Wrong. The TRUE Gospel is good news because it's saying you don't have to work for anything. It's not a treadmill. It's a walk and relationship with Jesus. Legalism is hard work. YOUR Gospel is bad news.

Dude, you quoted Romans 7:24, and 1st Timothy 1:15 in your posts indicating that Paul believed that he was foremost of all sinners, and a wretched man! That means he was an active sinner who not only was the first of all sinners, but a wretched sinner! No, falling down, no dusting off, but someone who is barely hanging on ready to ignite. This man was converted when he was arresting and putting to death Christians? Yet, you teach that Paul believed he was number one sinner, and wretched just waiting to kill again? No, DB, I never called 1st John confused, bipolar, but what you believe is confused and extremely bipolar.

Paul said he was chief of sinners. Paul said he was a wretched man. HE said it, not me.

I believe it shows the humility and meekness of a great Christian man, Paul.