Elephant in the room - accusation of judging

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I do not withhold love and forgiveness from muslims who reject the cross! If I do, then how?

well, consider that you have accepted a definition of "reject the cross" that was taught to you, and seemed right, but you really don't know. If "pick up your cross" is the opposite, and you can be observed to not be carrying a cross, and this is pointed out to you, it might be time to reflect upon the first definition.

Now if "accept the cross" = "put a cross around your neck, and wear it outside your shirt" then the opposite is not "pick up your cross," as we are all reasonably sure it is, so being as how we almost universally start in the former place, and few might be said to make it to the latter one, it only makes sense to be sensitive to actions which define these, and who is not aware of instances in which people underwent the OP works deemed necessary for salvation but then apparently withdrew for whatever reason.

(And of course the standard reply to these is some sorrow, and maybe some justification, to paper over the undercurrent of shame that we feel, and find no analogue for in the NT crowds who marveled daily at the miracles evidenced in conversions. And you can't really ask the new convert what is wrong, or you can, but you aren't going to really get much answer other than "it just wasn't working for me" or whatever; but the point is, this is your "horse," in the horse/cart scenario)

And you make good points @ the Pharisees prayer; so i would ask you why the Good Samaritan is saved, or, if you are skeptical of that (for valid reasons, you make a good point there, too; i'm convinced you are wrong, but still a good point), why are we told by Christ to "go and do likewise" @ the GS, but not @ the Pharisees prayer?

i see that you are not meaning to condemn, but to uphold and defend your idea of salvation; which is why i asked you how you define someone who is saved, as if i did not know; whether you prefer to admit it or not, we accept verbal declarations, and listen to others' "conversion" experiences, chiefly, and only demote that person to "lost" in our minds upon some further evidence.

And this suggests--practically demands--some change of behavior on our part; we treat those we deem "lost" differently than we do those we deem "saved," if for no other reason than that we have made this judgement; and it is not for the better. You might argue this, which is why i suggest to you that you are lost, too, and i can Show You The Way, and if you love Jesus you must certainly want to know a better way, so since you have not accepted my invitation you must hate Jesus.

Now, how does this make you feel? Likely it evokes no feeling in you at all because you rejected it immediately. Why do you suppose the Catholic might feel any different?

So, sorry for the book, but if you just answer these two questions,

why are we told by Christ to "go and do likewise" @ the GS, but not @ the Pharisees prayer?

and

Why do you suppose the Catholic might feel any different?

i will answer your question without a question.