Elephant in the room - accusation of judging

[shazeep]

ok you do understand that i consider you no more saved or lost than anyone, me, right. This is a ridiculous paradigm to place people in, when these are mysteries to us, despite all of your certain knowledge. You assure people that they are saved, when Scripture says he who hold out to the end, and blithely suggest they are lost, if you just look at this verse, when if you would seek where you agree, which is huge, instead of what divides you, which is miniscule, you would change the world.

i don't really care what you believe, tbh; God is about right now; understand I AM.

If the Upc pledged to sponsor 100,000 Muslims' immigration into the US, you would def see some revival i mean what is that, certainly less than 10% of the OP pop...yikes, make that more like .00001% of 279 million Pents worldwide, hmm let's see what they've actually sponsored, ya, i don't see any direct sponsorship programs by US religious organizations, 100,000k total US immigration in 2014, so a few drips in the bucket...of course, we got our own problems, huh? Aside from building higher walls, i mean; the two surely aren't related.

What are you scared of? you each own like 5 guns But that won't ever happen, will it? Despite the evidence of your eyes--unless someone can witness grievances against the Muslims living among them now, and i've asked that about 5 times already--Because we're "roughing it" now, huh? You eat three meals a day and have a roof and toilets, and cause others to eat bugs but can't find room for .00001% of them, and think you have no sin. But you don't see what's wrong with "All Muslims are lost." You don't think maybe you're going to be a little embarrassed at some point when you are called to account for this?

[shazeep]

see that the solution is obvious, because it is what you don't want to do
if you build higher walls rather than longer tables, what you fear is what will happen, and you know this because it is what you fear--do i need to dig up the verse?

If you cannot fathom how All Muslims are Lost enables the chaos we are witnessing in your name on the other side of the planet, that is coming to you, then perhaps that is a better frame for this conversation.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok you do understand that i consider you no more saved or lost than anyone, me, right. This is a ridiculous paradigm to place people in, when these are mysteries to us, despite all of your certain knowledge. You assure people that they are saved, when Scripture says he who hold out to the end, and blithely suggest they are lost, if you just look at this verse, when if you would seek where you agree, which is huge, instead of what divides you, which is miniscule, you would change the world.

The bible spoke in terms of people already having been saved as I quoted from Paul.

But I said this before, also: In one sense we ARE SAVED, In another sense we are BEING SAVED. And still in yet another sense we have YET TO BE SAVED. The bible speaks from all three perspectives. DO you realize you caught one of them but missed the others?

I agree that if we are saved NOW we can lose that salvation later if we do not maintain and hold on to the end. But the bible does speak of a NOW, as in if we are ready NOW and died, would we be right with God. We can know that. Paul used the term that way.

i don't really care what you believe, tbh; God is about right now; understand I AM.

Amen,

If the Upc pledged to sponsor 100,000 Muslims' immigration into the US, you would def see some revival i mean what is that, certainly less than 10% of the OP pop...yikes, make that more like .00001% of 279 million Pents worldwide, hmm let's see what they've actually sponsored, ya, i don't see any direct sponsorship programs by US religious organizations, 100,000k total US immigration in 2014, so a few drips in the bucket...of course, we got our own problems, huh? Aside from building higher walls, i mean; the two surely aren't related.

I do not know why you stated this last paragraph. More of the missing thoughts from your writing I guess.

What are you scared of? you each own like 5 guns But that won't ever happen, will it? Despite the evidence of your eyes--unless someone can witness grievances against the Muslims living among them now, and i've asked that about 5 times already--Because we're "roughing it" now, huh? You eat three meals a day and have a roof and toilets, and cause others to eat bugs but can't find room for .00001% of them, and think you have no sin. But you don't see what's wrong with "All Muslims are lost." You don't think maybe you're going to be a little embarrassed at some point when you are called to account for this?

Again I cannot follow your paragraph. Please work on your writing skills.

I simply state all muslims are lost because the bible clearly says you have to have faith in the cross of Christ and they deny Christ even had a cross.

So, how you ever wrangled that into some sort of hatred and superiority is beyond me. I think you really assume the worst when reading someone's writings after you get a taste of what you assume makes you dislike someone like myself. Maybe YOU would feel superior against someone if you made statements like "all muslims are lost." But that does not enter my mind when I say that. You really do assume far too much.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

see that the solution is obvious, because it is what you don't want to do
if you build higher walls rather than longer tables, what you fear is what will happen, and you know this because it is what you fear--do i need to dig up the verse?

If you cannot fathom how All Muslims are Lost enables the chaos we are witnessing in your name on the other side of the planet, that is coming to you, then perhaps that is a better frame for this conversation.

Again, I'm not following your writing. i cannot tell what you are trying to say. Explain yourself more clearly. You do not write clearly.

[mfblume]

bump

Originally Posted by mfblume

Shazeep, do you believe muslims or ANYONE is lost if they do not even believe Jesus died on the cross? If not, then why? If so, then why?

Shazeep,:

Joh 3:17-18 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do you believe these verses indicate that people who do not believe they need be saved through Christ are saved? If so, why? If not, why? What does it mean to not believe on Him, and why are they condemned if they do not believe on Him?

I predict you cannot answer these questions or will refuse.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by shazeep

If the Upc pledged to sponsor 100,000 Muslims' immigration into the US, you would def see some revival i mean what is that, certainly less than 10% of the OP pop...yikes, make that more like .00001% of 279 million Pents worldwide, hmm let's see what they've actually sponsored, ya, i don't see any direct sponsorship programs by US religious organizations, 100,000k total US immigration in 2014, so a few drips in the bucket...of course, we got our own problems, huh? Aside from building higher walls, i mean; the two surely aren't related.

Shazeep: not only would that be reckless, but VERY foolish.

A far better solution would be for Islamic states to rescind their
laws against preaching the gospel, and SPONSOR 1,000 Oneness
evangelicals to enter and preach the gospel there! That would be
far more cost effective, and better for all concerned. With that type
of freedom, far more than 100,000 muslims might hear and believe
the gospel: I dare say it may be in the 100's of thousands more than
the number you suggest!

The Phnxman

[phareztamar]

I simply state all muslims are lost because the bible clearly says you have to have faith in the cross of Christ and they deny Christ even had a cross.

as a ball in high weeds

[shazeep]

I do not know why you stated this last paragraph. More of the missing thoughts from your writing I guess.


ya, prolly. i was just throwing that out there because everyone is wringing their hands over Muslims now, signing petitions to restrict Muslim immigration, preaching "All Muslims are lost," while our Gov is busy bombing them into oblivion, but we pretend there is Separation of church/State.

You might find some room in your doctrine for You reap what you sow.

[shazeep]

Maybe YOU would feel superior against someone if you made statements like "all muslims are lost." But that does not enter my mind when I say that. You really do assume far too much.

if i hated you, Michael, it would serve me better to just shut up and let your daughters marry Muslims. People trapped in a superiority complex are generally in denial--and i am not immune, i struggle with this too--and as it stems from poor self-esteem, it is just a defense mechanism. So you have to overcome the denial, and understand that i am not assuming anything, as "Everyone who does not follow my doctrine is lost" tells me all i need to know, and any condescending or attacking just verifies it.

[shazeep]

Again, I'm not following your writing. i cannot tell what you are trying to say. Explain yourself more clearly. You do not write clearly.

do i have to say that maybe you just cannot read clearly, or that it serves you to lecture me on my writing? If you will just point out the grammatical errors in any of those 3 sentences, i will correct it for you, ok? But they are just a prophecy based upon you reap what you sow.

see that the solution is obvious, because it is what you don't want to do.

if you build higher walls rather than longer tables, what you fear is what will happen, and you know this because it is what you fear--do i need to dig up the verse?

If you cannot fathom how All Muslims are Lost enables the chaos we are witnessing in your name on the other side of the planet, that is coming to you, then perhaps that is a better frame for this conversation.