Are all Catholics lost?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

So, Shazeep, you should ask A catholic who stands by these statements if they believe everyone except catholics are lost.

i would never do that, because i do not care a whit what some Catholic lawyer tells me about their doctrines,

Oh, but we're hypocrites if we say a group is lost because of their belief -- not because of themselves as you think we are saying-- that contradicts what the bible says it necessary for salvation, and we are lawyers? But when it comes to a catholic, they're not hypocrites? But you did that with a muslim who told me all Christians are lost, si why be surprised?

Funny how CHRISTIANS can be demonized in your mind for the same thing that you excuse muslims and catholics over.

and a humble Catholic would not belabor me with them. I am not fearful about Catholics, or Muslims; i fear hypocrites if i fear anything.

And speaking of hypocrisy, you accuse us of being hypocrites because we claim people are lost if they do not believe the bible, and yet you are not concerned over catholics and muslims who say the same thing about everyone else apart from their religion. Do you know what hypocrites really are?

The central point might be that whatever their answer would be, God is not required to pay them any attention anyway, same as for you. You can say all Catholics are lost all you like--how many Catholics have perished due to your proclamation?

None, because I am not proclaiming that. I am proclaiming lack of faith in what the word commands us to believe is what makes us lost. If you heard me preach you'd know that. But for some reason some passing statements on a forum are a guy's obsession.

But you ignore everything we say. I already said the focus is not on "all catholics are lost," but on people who do not believe the bible are lost. Like I said, it's a stacked deck to simply ask if all catholics are lost. You are making it about people. And that is not the point. It is about what DOCTRINES they wholeheartedly believe in. And not matter how hard you try to make it about people, I will forever remind you that's not the point. It's whether or not we believe what the Word says.

You hedge and hum and haw when told catholics are people who believe the catholic dogma that you admitted was a valid concern. You said you would not talk about that. I've never seen such a web of chaos. A catholic is what a catholic believes. And it is the therefore the BELIEF and not the person, that is the issue, despite how much you twist it to be about the person.

How many Catholics have been swayed to change their mind based upon your opinion, do you think?

I saw many catholics converted because I told them what I have been focusing on here, which is not what you claim I focus upon. Believe the bible. It's not what you accuse us of presenting.... "all catholics are lost." It's rather "Believe what the word says." And voila! They come out from catholicism!

So then, what has this utterance, this belief of yours and others, served to do? It has only accomplished one thing--to out you as judgemental,

If that was what I was doing, amen! But I am not. Again why do you disregard explanations of intentions? Why do you even choose to discuss when discussion demands we consider what the person actually believes and take that as a given that it's really what they believe? I say, "It's not black, but it's white." And you say, "But it's not black. Why are you saying it is black." And I say, "I agree it's not black. It's white." And you say, "But you are saying it is black." Why do you do this?

I am judging no one. Even you admitted that relating what the bible says to a situation that is applicable is not judging the situation or people involved.

which quoting Christ's contrasting message of forgiveness and love to your consternation just verifies--or bam witness how this position has improved your or anyone else's life, and i will apologize.

How on earth can God forgive someone for believing a belief that He said damns the soul? Anyone can be forgiven of anything if they repent of it, except for the likes of what Esau did. How can you do that with the word of God? It's not even a matter of forgiveness, because God does not forgive people for holding what He says will send souls to hell. Explain to me how God forgives people who do things without repentance about things His word says damns their souls. Explain that for us. Are you saying God forgives people for being lost because they did not know about what is lost or saved?

All you have done is make enemies of friends, as near as i can tell. And you would react no differently if the shoe were on the other foot. Understand with the same measure you use, it will be measured out to you. You are flouting a spiritual principle to uphold a doctrine of men, which all have some basis in Scripture. It is you who is lost, the moment you look down on the Catholic, which includes 'helping' them 'see their error,' which always involves a doctrinal discussion, and never seems to involve doing the right thing in daily life.

If your twisted version of what I am doing were true, I would agree with you. But as I have demonstrated many times more than I can count, YOU are the one making it about PEOPLE, not me. I am making it about BELIEFS that contradict the Word. You keep pushing it toward PEOPLE being the issue and I am saying it is not people, it is what the word says and what we believe and what our hearts must believe. How you can consistently twist this in your mind is what is scary.

A pox on your doctrines--which btw is exactly what you got. If doctrine is supposed to make you so much better, why are you so much worse? Speaking generally of course; i don't think you are a bad person at all, for the record.

It's not black, You are not getting that.

[shazeep]

as this is a sensitive subject, your vote will not be audited, and will remain anonymous.

[Esaias]

Shaz, do you even know any catholics?

I do. Family, even.

You have no idea what you're babbling about.

As usual.

[shazeep]

could you be more specific? ty

i'm actually still in Orlando, in a lapsed Catholic home at the moment, an Italian friend; but i'm missing the point there i guess. I used to volunteer at Catholic Charities, so yes i have known a few Catholics. As long as we avoided doctrine we got along fine. None of them seemed anxious for me to point out the error of their ways, and beyond repeated invitations to their church, religion actually rarely...never came up. They even helped any Wiccans who came in asking, what do you think of that?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Did Jesus say " be ye nice, and enter into eternal life" ?

[shazeep]

you must interpret love your neighbor fulfills all the law and the prophets for yourself, EB, but i don't think 'being nice' is too far off the mark as you are reflected to others, iow as how others will see you, especially considering the fruit of the gifts of the spirit; these would all be qualities that we would ascribe to a 'nice' person would we not? Be hard on yourself. If 'nice' is a synonym for 'kind,' then yes, give me a nice person over someone pedantically and obnoxiously 'correct' every time.

God’s Righteous Judgment

1Therefore, any one of you, who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. 2We know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth. 3Do you really think — anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same — that you will escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you despise the riches of His kindness..?

how much plainer could it be?

and become one to another kind, tender-hearted, forgiving one another,
according as also God in Christ did forgive you.

The love is long-suffering, it is kind, the love doth not envy, the
love doth not vaunt itself, is not puffed up

Instead, he must be kind to everyone. He must be a good teacher.

[shazeep]

if you are beating people up over 50 cents--this deathly dwelling on others' sins--when you have been forgiven a jillion dollars, dont be surprised when your debt is called in. God will not be mocked. Call people you have never met lost all you like, despite Scripture, but you are playing with fire. You think you have found a passage to use against others, little realizing the passages that now apply to you. Instead, he must be kind to everyone. He must be a good teacher. Telling someone they are lost is hardly kind now, is it.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Shazeep: you only need about three verses, without contradiction,
to prove your claim. They are the scriptures that relate to the gospel
that saves!
You also need to differentiate between the souls of man, and all those
institutions that pretend to proclaim truth.

Now this:
There are only three "religions" in the world: the many gods religion,
who really are heathens; the no god(s) religion, who are atheists; and
the ONE GOD religion.
There are only TWO churches. The True Church, called out by the Lord
Jesus Christ; and the false church, which is every other "church".

And how can anyone know the true from the false? By this one scripture,
which is attested by the rest of the Bible: "There is no other NAME under
heaven, given among men, in which we must be saved."

Any other name is by the spirit of the anti-christ!

Only one true church, and it happens to be the exact doctrine you believe, and every one else is a phony and going to hell. How original.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Did I happen to mention that all Catholics are lost?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason B

Only one true church, and it happens to be the exact doctrine you believe, and every one else is a phony and going to hell. How original.

Many are called few are chosen. Enter in at the strait gate and the narrow path which leads to eternal life. Yep, sounds exclusive to me. Oh, if you aren't following that exact doctrine I guess we should be attempting to do so. Instead of throwing our hands in the air saying oh well, and thinking we are going to get some cozy Bible study in the sky.

Good luck with that