Does the golden rule save without the cross? - Page 15

CC1 · #1 09-15-2016, 07:11 PM

Universal reconciliation is such an absurd concept so apart from what the word of God says it does not deserve serious debate.

shazeep · #2 09-15-2016, 08:24 PM

that does not mean that you are qualified to determine who is saved or lost, however, and, that should not alter how a believer approaches other souls, anyway. See, it's all a neat package. "We have figured out who the saved are, and it is us, and since everyone else is lost the Golden Rule may also be applied as we see fit."

Like i said, i would be seeking my own salvation were i you.

shazeep · #3 09-16-2016, 07:18 AM

not even considering that i could give you prolly 100 verses that suggest Universal Reconciliation. That i agree with you there becomes irrelevant also. We are not God.

mfblume · #4 09-16-2016, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

Universal reconciliation is such an absurd concept so apart from what the word of God says it does not deserve serious debate.

Agreed. Romans 6:3 disproves that doctrine in one fell swoop.

The simple fact of that matter is that one is lost without having believed in the death of Christ for our sins, and all this conjecture about what God will do with those who never heard it to begin with only hinders us from actually telling them about it. God will do what he will do with the unreached. I cannot say what he will or won't do with them. But our business is to tell everyone who doesn't know. Simple enough.

Godsdrummer · #5 09-16-2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Agreed. Romans 6:3 disproves that doctrine in one fell swoop.

The simple fact of that matter is that one is lost without having believed in the death of Christ for our sins, and all this conjecture about what God will do with those who never heard it to begin with only hinders us from actually telling them about it. God will do what he will do with the unreached. I cannot say what he will or won't do with them. But our business is to tell everyone who doesn't know. Simple enough.

No disrespect Mike but could you describe what that means to you? How do you go about telling everyone who does not know about Christ

I know in my life it was about getting someone to come to our church so the preacher could preach "the plan of salvation". I mean honestly, in our world who has not heard about Christ? It seems that we are not propagating the knowledge of Christ rather our particular form of religion. You seem to imply that the world has not heard. Yet the very basis of the Christian religions is that Christ died for our sins, and belief in that very fact.

With that thought in mind, separate the so called "plan of salvation" from the "believe on me by your words". Christ did not qualify that the world would receive the plan of salvation "by your words", he simply stated that the world would believe on him by their words. Man has made the "believe on him" into some set of steps of salvation.

mfblume · #6 09-16-2016, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

No disrespect Mike but could you describe what that means to you? How do you go about telling everyone who does not know about Christ

I know in my life it was about getting someone to come to our church so the preacher could preach "the plan of salvation". I mean honestly, in our world who has not heard about Christ? It seems that we are not propagating the knowledge of Christ rather our particular form of religion. You seem to imply that the world has not heard. Yet the very basis of the Christian religions is that Christ died for our sins, and belief in that very fact.

With that thought in mind, separate the so called "plan of salvation" from the "believe on me by your words". Christ did not qualify that the world would receive the plan of salvation "by your words", he simply stated that the world would believe on him by their words. Man has made the "believe on him" into some set of steps of salvation.

Tell them what Peter did. The whole sermon not just verse 38, but including verse 38.

shazeep · #7 09-17-2016, 08:36 AM

verse 38? sorry, missed the ref, can't find it.

And i thought Romans 6:3 meant something completely different, hmm. You connect that to No Universalism in some way that i cannot see.

mfblume · #8 09-17-2016, 05:23 PM

Indeed.

mfblume · #9 09-17-2016, 08:51 PM

Romans 6:3 says ONLY THOSE baptized into Christ's death have that death accounted to them. In other words, NO ONE ELSE. That means that SOME are not in His death. Only those BAPTIZED INTO HIM are baptized into His death.

The very reason the words were mentioned, "As many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ..." means ONLY THIS GROUP.

shazeep · #10 09-18-2016, 06:51 AM

amen--a believer starts out "forgiven."

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Romans 6:3 says ONLY THOSE baptized into Christ's death have that death accounted to them. In other words, NO ONE ELSE. That means that SOME are not in His death. Only those BAPTIZED INTO HIM are baptized into His death.

The very reason the words were mentioned, "As many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ..." means ONLY THIS GROUP.

i guess it depends upon where one puts the emphasis, which in my mind is the "were baptized into His death?" part. If we can read elsewhere that baptism does not save, then i would say that "only those baptized into Christ's death are baptized into Christ," and "Only those BAPTIZED INTO HIM are baptized into His death" is actually being questioned by this verse.

"Don't you know that you are being baptized into Christ's death?"
and don't any of us know of examples of someone "baptized" who later demonstrates that they did not grasp the "death" part?