True or False: Grace is harder than Law

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

16“Look, I’m sending you out like sheep among wolves.

21“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will even rise up against their parents and have them put to death.ac 22You will be hated by everyone because of My name.ad But the one who endures to the end will be delivered.ae,af 23When they persecute you in one town, escape to another.ag For I assure you: You will not have covered the towns of Israel before the •Son of Man comes. 24A discipleah is not above his teacher, or a •slave above his master.ai 25It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house ‘•Beelzebul,’ how much more the members of his household!aj

Fear God

26“Therefore,ak don’t be afraid of them, since there is nothing covered that won’t be uncovered and nothing hidden that won’t be made known.al 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light. What you hear in a whisper,am proclaim on the housetops.an 28Don’t fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul;ao rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in •hell.ap 29Aren’t two sparrows sold for a penny?aq Yet not one of them falls to the ground without your Father’sar consent.as 30But even the hairs of your head have all been counted.at 31So don’t be afraid therefore; you are worth more than many sparrows.

Not once did I see any statement that 'grace is harder than law'.

People have their own ideas, apparently, and do not want to conform them to the Word.

[shazeep]

i beg your pardon? the Word is pure milk, wadr, and this idea might be conforming to It quite well! i didn't even try hard though, we'll see. contrast this with it will go well with you imo...

believe nothing, even if you heard it from me, if it doesn't agree with your understanding though

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

People have their own ideas, apparently, and do not want to conform them to the Word.

i note that argument was applied to Christ

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i beg your pardon? the Word is pure milk, wadr, and this idea might be conforming to It quite well! i didn't even try hard though, we'll see. contrast this with it will go well with you imo...

believe nothing, even if you heard it from me, if it doesn't agree with your understanding though

I understand what your trying to say, namely that living in grace brings dangers that perhaps would not be present under the law. Although that's debatable.

BUT, "grace is harder than law" is simply not a Biblical concept. Hence my use of the term pop theology.

Christ is the WORD. And we as Christians are to bring every thought captive to obedience to Christ.

Christianity - real Bible Christianity - is all about being brainwashed by God Himself.

[shazeep]

oh i wasn't trying to win that argument necessarily. though i do think it is true.

[votivesoul]

It might be an exercise in mere sophistry to quote Scripture and make a point that we think is sound, but start comparing matters to real life, and the sophistry begins to break down.

Here's what I mean:

We can talk all day long about "men love darkness instead of light", and "had pleasure in unrighteousness", and etc.

But let's face it. In Adam ALL DIE. Why? Because in Adam, all have a law of sin that forces everyone from Adam forward to be compelled to sin. There is a defect in our moral nature, inherited from Grandpa Adam.

This defect, as Brother Blume so ably pointed out, comes alive and slays us, when the commandment of the law is ushered in.

Following that, here's where the reasoning becomes unsound, and hence mere sophistry:

The law of sin in our members, while dormant, does nothing, until the law of God is introduced. At that time, it revives and destroys our innocence before God, so that, should we die in that state, we would have to face judgment.

Here's the kicker: When does the law of sin revive in us? When are we first introduced to right and wrong? When do we lose our innocence? When do we become slaves to sin?

WHEN WE ARE CHILDREN!!!

Not you, not me, not anyone anywhere had a choice in being born "in Adam". No one person other than Jesus, since Adam fell, has ever been born without a law of sin in their members.

And not until the cross, and the power of God unto salvation otherwise known as the Gospel, could anyone ever hope of having the law of sin in their members, and the power of sin, be destroyed, so that they could freely serve God with a pure conscience, and bear fruit in the Holy Spirit.

So, then, until all have passed through the Gospel, and have been born again, all have a law of sin, inherited from Adam, through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.

Their mere conception guaranteed they would be born "in Adam", with a law of sin in their members. That law of sin, guaranteed, would activate and destroy the soul of the one now corrupted by sin.

It is only until much later, when a person can determine and will that they either accept or reject God's free offer of salvation. But your average child anywhere in the world isn't being given that chance to hear the Good News and obey it. So guess what, all these young children running around in the world, all going to hell because the law of sin revived in them when a basic commandment of God was introduced to them, and they broke it, and became a slave to sin.

This means that the moral inability of a person to obey God's law is the result of Adam's fall. And Adam's fall is a result of him choosing to eat of the fruit in the garden. Adam, without the law of sin in his members, willingly choose to disobey God, and so, he ruined it for the rest of us.

Sure, when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin. Who would contradict that? But why is it that anyone of us can even be drawn away by our own lusts? We don't even know lust except the law states "thou shalt not covet", according to Paul. So guess what? The law of God is what causes the law of sin to activate, and the law of sin, taking advantage of us, through the weakness of our flesh, slays us.

So not even the moral inability is our fault. Anyone who thinks they can get on with life without ever sinning (i.e. transgressing God's law) must have a Messiah-complex and think they're Jesus.

It's not until the power and presence of the Holy Spirit can anyone hope to live sin-free.

And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Grace. Anything less than that is salvation by works, so that a person may boast.

[Aquila]

I think that Paul illustrated how we are to live under grace best,

Romans 13:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

[votivesoul]

As for the rich young ruler, sure, "he made his boast in the law", as Paul might say.

But one thing he lacked, according to Jesus. Before he ever followed the Lord, he needed to "sell all he had".

Which meant what? Well, the man didn't sell anything, and never followed Jesus. Instead he went away heartbroken, because he was very wealthy.

So, first, he had an idol in his life called wealth, since he wouldn't part with it in order to gain the one thing he lacked. Second, since he wouldn't part with it to gain the one thing he lacked, it also meant that he loved his wealth more than he loved the Son of God. Greed/avarice is covetousness.

So, just because this man tried to boast about how law-abiding he was, Jesus, without directly confronting him, nevertheless, showed the man his sins, i.e. his transgressions of the law of God.

Do not think this man was righteous up until Jesus said what he said. Solomon the Wise said "there is no man that sinneth not". David his father wrote "There is none that doeth good, no not one". Paul used these sentiments to prove "all have sinned". And since sin is the transgression of the law, and all have transgressed, even so then this rich young ruler was a sinner/transgressor of God's law.

To say otherwise is to contradict Solomon, David, and Paul, and really, the Holy Spirit which inspired them all.

[votivesoul]

Bump

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I see a greater demand under grace, as follows:

"Lord, how many times do I forgive my brother if he sins against me? Unto seven times?"

"No, but unto seventy times seven."

Under the dictates of the Old Covenant, it was eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life, if blood was shed by man, by man would blood be shed (i.e. capital punishment).

If someone killed a family member of yours, you could pursue him or her, and if you caught up to him or her before they made it to a "city of refuge", you, as the avenger of blood, could exact retribution by your own hand.

But today, if you are struck on the cheek, turn again the other. If you are insulted, reviled, or injured in some way, you are to forgive, and surrender all rights of retribution to God. Even if someone kills your family member, you are called to peace, to release the killer from your desire for vengeance.

If you ask me, all of that is way harder than what was prescribed under the Law!

[votivesoul]

Bump

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Divorce in the Old Covenant:

Hand her a "bill of divorcement" and send her back to her papa, if she displeases you in any way.

Divorce in the New Covenant:

Never, except there be fornication/adultery.

Making a marriage work no matter the cost, under grace, because it is commanded in the New Covenant, is way harder than ending a marriage at the drop of a hat, because Moses permitted it, due to the hardness of their hearts.