Those who never heard about Jesus? - Page 13

Aquila · #**121** 08-19-2016, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen. But my point is saying the Spirit leads alone, without Word, is dangerous.

I agree.

My point is that when the Spirit does lead, the Spirit has been known to lead us into greater truth by challenging time honored traditional interpretations. The Word never changes, but the Spirit often bids us to interpret that word differently than previous generations.

shazeep · #**122** 08-19-2016, 08:25 AM

Paul spent a whole chapter on this in Corinthians. Paul had no NT.

mfblume · #**123** 08-19-2016, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I agree.

My point is that when the Spirit does lead, the Spirit has been known to lead us into greater truth by challenging time honored traditional interpretations. The Word never changes, but the Spirit often bids us to interpret that word differently than previous generations.

Yes that is true.

Evang.Benincasa · #**124** 08-19-2016, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

His law will be love....

Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

All of the above is just repeating Leviticus 19:9-18, what is pretty interesting is that you think it was all new and innovative? It wasn't, because if Rabbi Hillel the Elder had the very same conclusion. What my issue is that love your neighbor doesn't supercede the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the point of allowing Muslims access through the strait gate and the narrow path.

Do you agree?

Evang.Benincasa · #**125** 08-19-2016, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. .... law shall be written in their hearts by the finger of the Spirit, as formerly written in the tables of stone." i've heard many explanations, from one of Grace to Christ changing our dna, but the point to make here i think is that just like multiple pastors' unwillingness to honestly relate how they would receive "you are lost" from a sincere...Muslim, say, or even another pastor, so much so that the point is made that they would not take it kindly, it would be dismissed out of hand, it is hearts that have (tacitly) verified the truth of Scripture, and should guide one in interpretation, the Spirit being one's guide, rather than men.

Listen, WHO CARES!

It gets really old to continually read how someone brings up "multiple pastors" or "these churches" when you have absolutely no way of proving that is true or not. You constantly bring up the WORD "scripture" but miserably fail to prove hermeneutically with SCRIPTURE your points. But only want to post memes, or bring up "pastors" said this, or believe this, or that. Who cares dude. We are discussing the Bible. We are discussing whether the mumbo jumbo you have been gleefully typing away is even close to being what Jesus and the apostles taught. Listen, if John the Baptist believed the mess you have been spewing he would of NEVER refused baptism to the Pharisees, and Jesus would of never gave the Pharisees His scathing rebuke of Matthew 23. Jesus would of never proclaimed the Isaiah 64:10 curse over Jerusalem in Matthew 23:38.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

But i don't want to be misconstrued here--lol, as if--but anyway, this doesn't mean that one cannot get agreement or disagreement from the Body that they should heed, imo, as everyone should be open to correction, but i think it does mean that if one has ears to hear, agreement or disagreement will come from the heart, regardless of the words being said. Iow that concept was being verbally disagreed with, amounting to agreement. The truth often becomes evident just by putting the shoe on the other foot.

Truth becomes evident by reading the scriptures as one is led by the Holy Ghost. Not by walking in someone else's shoes. You can't walk in my shoes, nor can I walk in yours. You absolutely chaotic convoluted way of looking at the Gospel isn't found in the writings of Paul, or the Words of Christ.

thephnxman · #**126** 08-19-2016, 10:14 PM

"...everybody should be open to correction...", SAID THE muslim
EXCEPT himself: BECAUSE HE SURELY ISN'T OPEN TO CORRECTION. He
unabashedly writes as if he is doing the correcting! EVERYTHING he says
is to contradict, divide, and confuse ". . . the weak in the faith . . ." . . . . .
and the AFF is giving him a free rein.

"Judge righteous judgment."

votivesoul · #**127** 08-20-2016, 02:20 AM

"All souls are mine, saith the Lord, and the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

James wrote there is only one Lawgiver. Since sin is a transgression of the law, the Lawgiver, as Righteous Judge, will determine and interpret His Law according to the good pleasure of His will, and so, will decide who among the vast crowds of humanity that never heard of Jesus from A.D. 33 forward, has actually transgressed His Law, or not.

For me, this is where Revelation 20 comes into play. The books will be opened, and the dead will be judged by them. A lot of people think this refers to the 66 books of the Bible, but that is mere interpretation not actually verified by the passage, i.e. it is an assumption.

In any case, the truth is, is that this judgement is mere frivolity if the outcome has already been settled. The key phrase is "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (v. 15). After all the dead were given up, and the books were opened, and the Book of Life was opened, and each received a judgment from the Lord, according to their works (v. 12), any whose name isn't found in the Book of Life is destroyed in the lake which burns...

This, to me at least, strongly suggests the possibility that there were will be some of these dead, whose name is going to be found in the Book of Life, after they are judged according to their works.

I can only imagine these are those who never had a chance to believe on Him whom the Father has sent.

mfblume · #**128** 08-20-2016, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

"All souls are mine, saith the Lord, and the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

James wrote there is only one Lawgiver. Since sin is a transgression of the law, the Lawgiver, as Righteous Judge, will determine and interpret His Law according to the good pleasure of His will, and so, will decide who among the vast crowds of humanity that never heard of Jesus from A.D. 33 forward, has actually transgressed His Law, or not.

For me, this is where Revelation 20 comes into play. The books will be opened, and the dead will be judged by them. A lot of people think this refers to the 66 books of the Bible, but that is mere interpretation not actually verified by the passage, i.e. it is an assumption.

In any case, the truth is, is that this judgement is mere frivolity if the outcome has already been settled. The key phrase is "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (v. 15). After all the dead were given up, and the books were opened, and the Book of Life was opened, and each received a judgment from the Lord, according to their works (v. 12), any whose name isn't found in the Book of Life is destroyed in the lake which burns...

This, to me at least, strongly suggests the possibility that there were will be some of these dead, whose name is going to be found in the Book of Life, after they are judged according to their works.

I can only imagine these are those who never had a chance to believe on Him whom the Father has sent.

That would be salvation by works, though. Christ never needed to come if that is the case.

Evang.Benincasa · #**129** 08-20-2016, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

That would be salvation by works, though. Christ never needed to come if that is the case.

So how good does someone have to be to gain salvation outside of the Cross?

I mean no disrespect to anyone when I post this.

Jesus is the only access. Someone going through anyway other than Him makes that person a thief and a liar. Also, I keep bringing this up, but it still needs to be dealt with. The way is hard to navigate the opening is almost shut, and few will be able to find the way and the entrance. Sorry, but no Cross, no Jesus, no access.

mfblume · #**130** 08-20-2016, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So how good does someone have to be to gain salvation outside of the Cross?

I mean no disrespect to anyone when I post this.

Jesus is the only access. Someone going through anyway other than Him makes that person a thief and a liar. Also, I keep bringing this up, but it still needs to be dealt with. The way is hard to navigate the opening is almost shut, and few will be able to find the way and the entrance. Sorry, but no Cross, no Jesus, no access.

I cannot see Rev 20 being about salvation by works. Like you said, Jesus is the door. And the bible is full of loss of salvation if it's by works. Jesus did not have to come if one could be saved by works. Why all the suffering? It would all be a waste.

The closest I can come to for saying people might make it without knowing Christ, and it is by NO MEANS any foundation whatsoever, so I would never propose it, is He said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do," while he was on the cross -- in some sense making the cross applicable to these others, interceding for the ignorant through virtue of HIS works of the cross. To me that makes most sense, better then Rev 20 being for salvation by works. But I would not use it, either. I just mention it for the sake of what makes more sense than salvation by works.

People may ask what Rev 20 is talking about if it's not salvation by works. I think it's proving to those who are lost why they're lost. None of the roks save them, but rather are not raised orf the purpose of salvation... but for the purpose of proof of their damnation. IOW, this is why you're lost, and they're all negative works.

So the weightier argument is asking, "What else would Rev 20 be talking about if not salvation by works?", but rather, "How could anyone be saved by works when the bible directly refutes it many times?"