Those who never heard about Jesus? - Page 32

mfblume · #**311** 08-31-2016, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houston

Romans 9:16-23King James Version (KJV)

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Pharaoh was a national representative. God does these things on a national basis but not individual. Even God hating Esau so the younger was served by the elder was done nationally and never in the boys lifetimes.

mfblume · #**312** 08-31-2016, 09:39 AM

Antipas never answered my question as to what his standard is to know which passages of scripture are right and which are wrong.

Aquila · #**313** 08-31-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Antipas never answered my question as to what his standard is to know which passages of scripture are right and which are wrong.

Well, the one's he doesn't agree with of course! LOL

shazeep · #**314** 08-31-2016, 03:18 PM

most of our disagreements arise from differing definitions, i am convinced. The Gospel that was 'sufficient for them' gets drifted into a demand for rote tribute with a rigidly defined set of rites, etc. We have two sides, each trying to forward a conflicting definition without realizing it, in any disagreement.

mizpeh · #**315** 08-31-2016, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

How can they believe in whom they have not heard? And how can they hear except they preach? And how can they preach except they be sent?

So it seems salvation is impossible without the gospel being preached and believed in. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, he that believes not shall be damned.

NOW, ask yourself: "Is it UNFAIR that so many haven't had the opportunity to believe?"

The answer will reveal whether you think in terms of "grace and unmerited favor and pardon" or whether you secretly think God somehow OWES salvation to anyone...

How do you know that God does not reach out to everyone?

Esaias · #**316** 08-31-2016, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

How do you know that God does not reach out to everyone?

I quoted scripture, which proves one cannot believe without proclaimers being sent. Further, I quoted scripture which proves belief is a requirement for salvation. Therefore, people cannot be saved unless they believe, and cannot believe unless they hear the Gospel, and cannot hear the Gospel unless someone preaches it, and nobody will preach it unless God sends them.

As for God reaching out to everyone, the Bible says God chose Abraham alone, and chose his descendants after him, to know him. The rest of mankind was to come to know God via the missionary work of Israel under Christ, which has been going on for 2000 years.

shazeep · #**317** 08-31-2016, 06:03 PM

what about all the verses that paint a different picture?

Esaias · #**318** 08-31-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

what about all the verses that paint a different picture?

Such as?

Also, "the scripture cannot be broken," which according to Christ's usage of the term means the entirety of scripture agrees with itself. Thus there aren't verses that teach one thing, and another set that teach the contrary. So the whole bible "paints a picture" that all its component parts support.

mfblume · #**319** 08-31-2016, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Well, the one's he doesn't agree with of course! LOL

That's what I am afraid of. The standard of one's own preference.

shazeep · #**320** 08-31-2016, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Such as?

Also, "the scripture cannot be broken," which according to Christ's usage of the term means the entirety of scripture agrees with itself. Thus there aren't verses that teach one thing, and another set that teach the contrary. So the whole bible "paints a picture" that all its component parts support.

well, in this case, as in most others, it seems there is support for both evangelism and that everyone hears the gospel, no exceptions. The passages have all recently been quoted. Regardless of anyone's interpretation of how these apparently contradictory passages actually might complement each other, how far out on a limb is any one doctrine going in condemning the others? And, isn't there Scripture specifically about this? I think?