You not preaching holiness till you've named it!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I believe you are wrong in stating that Paul and Peter's point was that we are not to adorn ourselves with Jewelry. Rather it should be done in moderation. Else both are condemning the wearing of clothes also. Which we both know cannot be.

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

By the same token. Paul would be saying women cannot fix their hair. Yet no one teaches that.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

One cannot use these passages to condemn, one thing yet allow other things in the same verse. One must be consistent with the whole verse, else you are not understanding the meaning of the verse.

The apostle said "whose adorning let it not be..." This is plain, and cannot rationally be taken to mean "whose adorning let it be, just not too much..."

The two apostles say almost verbatim the same thing. Thus we see that "putting on of apparel" answers to "costly array". The godly woman is not to have clothing AS AN ADORNMENT, ie for purely decorative purposes. Clothing is to be modest and functional, not flashy, extravagant, or otherwise used merely as a means of DECORATION.

One MUST be clothed. Failure to wear clothing is shameful. The same can NOT be said about wearing gold or pearls (or other jewelry) or plaiting the hair. There is no sin or shame in not wearing jewelry or having elaborate hairstyles.

In summary the apostle said "let it not be". We cannot conclude he meant "let it be", so we have to work within the constraints given. One can do without gold or plaited hair. That leaves apparel. Apparel MUST be worn, so it is obvious that certain KINDS of apparel are forbidden. Any apparel worn for purely decorative purposes is out, as is "costly array".

On the other side, we have essentially people saying "When the Bible says don't let your adorning consist of gold, plaited hair, or fancy shmancy clothing, it really means you can be adorned with gold, plaited hair, and fancy shmancy clothing, as long as it's not too much and as long as your heart is right." In other words, "if you feel comfortable with doing exactly what two apostles said not to do, then it's okay."

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I believe you are wrong in stating that Paul and Peter's point was that we are not to adorn ourselves with Jewelry. Rather it should be done in moderation. Else both are condemning the wearing of clothes also. Which we both know cannot be.

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

By the same token. Paul would be saying women cannot fix their hair. Yet no one teaches that.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

One cannot use these passages to condemn, one thing yet allow other things in the same verse. One must be consistent with the whole verse, else you are not understanding the meaning of the verse.

Your posts are always balanced and logical. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[Cracker Barrel]

Ezekiel 28:13-17
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thyways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground,....

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

Ezekiel 28:13-17
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thyways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground,....

The garments, the very vesture of satan was made of precious stones. The pride of his beauty is what caused him to be self exalted. It has been his objective to place his beauty upon humanity. If he could put his beauty upon Gods temple it ceases to belong to God. The quest of the true sincere Saint is to press toward the mark of the high calling of Jesus Christ. Not the lowly elements of this world, and all its pride and false beauty.

That's why any form of makeup is wrong to put on. That's why and form of jewelry is wrong to put on. That's why it's wrong for a man to dress like a woman, or a woman to dress in a mans garment. That's why it's wrong for a woman or a man to carry themselves flirtatious or loose, unbecoming of a Christian. Because it's false, it's artificial, it's of the devil, who has come to steal kill and destroy!

Come on preacher Name it!

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

The garments, the very vesture of satan was made of precious stones. The pride of his beauty is what caused him to be self exalted. It has been his objective to place his beauty upon humanity. If he could put his beauty upon Gods temple it ceases to belong to God. The quest of the true sincere Saint is to press toward the mark of the high calling of Jesus Christ. Not the lowly elements of this world, and all its pride and false beauty.

That's why any form of makeup is wrong to put on. That's why and form of jewelry is wrong to put on. That's why it's wrong for a man to dress like a woman, or a woman to dress in a mans garment. That's why it's wrong for a woman or a man to carry themselves flirtatious or loose, unbecoming of a Christian. Because it's false, it's artificial, it's of the devil, who has come to steal kill and destroy!

Come on preacher Name it!

It was God himself who put all those precious stones on Satan.

God himself is full of beauty, Jesus wears a Golden Sash which is a form of Jewelry.
The elders in heaven have crowns of Gold.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The issue was originally "what is holiness and how should it be preached?" People wanted to focus on "standards", and the issue became "should Christian (women) wear jewelry?" You and brother FZ took the position that "what was used in the OT to represent spiritually good things cannot be wrong under the new covenant, today", which I demonstrated was not true.

Responding with "the issue is sin" doesn't really make any logical sense as a response. Not sure how your statement affects the status of the discussion?

The discussion evolved to what is sin. Nothing wrong with a discussion evolving.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The discussion evolved to what is sin. Nothing wrong with a discussion evolving.

No, nothing wrong with evolving discussions. It just seems to me your remark was somewhat of a non sequitur.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I never intended to make jewelry sin by definition of OT law. The only point that I was making is that Peter and Paul said not to adorn ourselves with it. The debate was over the interpretation of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2. If you advocate wearing jewelry outside of a watch or a wedding band, so be it. I still consider you a brother, but we just disagree here. With all the points that have been made I don't think you can fairly dismiss the conservative views as being wrong. I do agree with the fact it is a matter of the heart.

You have the best answers here. But I do believe your view can be proved wrong. I maintain you misunderstand the new testament references, that's all. But what you said best was we just disagree. I would now want to persuade anyone to go against their conscience.

[Esaias]

So, having disposed of these specious arguments, let's get back to the original thought of the thread.

"How should holiness be preached in a pastoral setting?"

Thoughts as to "what is holiness, and how should it be presented?"

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, having disposed of these specious arguments, let's get back to the original thought of the thread.

"How should holiness be preached in a pastoral setting?"

Thoughts as to "what is holiness, and how should it be presented?"

#1. Build a true bridge of trust and make sure they know you sincerely love them.

Then preach..

#2.
REPENT!
....And to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him...

#3. Repair any broken boards in the true bridge of trust and then make sure they know you still sincerely love them!.

#4. Then NAME the weight and the sin that has beset Us all.

#5. Repair any broken boards in the true bridge of trust and then make sure they know you still sincerely love them!.

Repeat